Will Jason Campbell return?

[Paintrain]

Hey Monksdown and DBuchanon101, I'm interested in hearing your take on this:
What would you call a QB going into his third full season as a starter with career numbers of a completion percentage below 60%, right around 200 YPG, 28 TD and 31 INT, passer rating in the low-mid 70's and a winning percentage below .500?

[Monksdown]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Hey Monksdown and DBuchanon101, I'm interested in hearing your take on this:
What would you call a QB going into his third full season as a starter with career numbers of a completion percentage below 60%, right around 200 YPG, 28 TD and 31 INT, passer rating in the low-mid 70's and a winning percentage below .500?

Someone with deceptively poor statistics at the beginning of their career that turned out to be a stud???

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Monksdown

Someone with deceptively poor statistics at the beginning of their career that turned out to be a stud???

How are they 'deceptively poor' stats? Are they poor or not? At that point in his career how would you classify him? If he were the QB of your team what would you be advocating to be done with him? More patience, trade, outright release?

[Monksdown]

Of course they are poor. And this is where you name drop some big stud on me. Some anomaly amongst the 100's of other qb's with numbers like that, that never succeeded. So go ahead, i'll play along.

Yes, those numbers are terrible. I'd move the quarterback out.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

How are they 'deceptively poor' stats? Are they poor or not? At that point in his career how would you classify him? If he were the QB of your team what would you be advocating to be done with him? More patience, trade, outright release?

Paintrain, what age and draft position is the player you speak of?

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Paintrain, what age and draft position is the player you speak of?

He was 26 at the time and is a QB. EDIT-And is not Eli Manning.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

He was 26 at the time and is a QB. EDIT-And is not Eli Manning.

Brees?

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Brees?

Exactly. Brees and Campbell have had very similar early careers. Young QB who were regarded as developmental prospects with potentially high ceilings coming out of school. Early struggles with inconsistency and decision making. Both had a great running back and a decent team around them but not elite playmaking receivers.. Lots of questions from their fan bases and front offices as to whether or not they were the guy. Very public pursuits of other QB to replace them. Both made a statement, 'This is my team and I am going to lead them as such.' Brees had a huge breakout season with 27 TD the following season.

I am not comparing Campbell to Brees in saying that he's going to drop 27 TD like Brees did, but pointing out the short sightedness of giving up on young QB who have shown some ability to play at this level with some success.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Monksdown

Someone with deceptively poor statistics at the beginning of their career that turned out to be a stud???

Eli Manning? If you want to call him a stud.

[Monksdown]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Eli Manning? If you want to call him a stud.

I don't really want to. But damn, that ring is shiny.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Monksdown

I don't really want to. But damn, that ring is shiny.

I don't actually know that it's Manning, but that's who I thought of when I saw Paintrain's numbers.

I don't know if I like a E. Manning example because he's probably not as good a QB as Campbell, just playing the odds. His play was a big reason why the Giants won the SB two years ago. But whose to say that if our defense could have gotten Jason into the playoffs at 10-6 by not imploding down the stretch, and staying in the top quadrant of defenses, he wouldn't have surprised everyone and led Zorn to a super bowl in his first year as HC?

I mean, yeah, pie in the sky scenario. But no less realistic than calling a Giants championship in 2007 or a Cardinals championship this year (which didn't happen, but you know, no fault to the QB position).

[Monksdown]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I don't actually know that it's Manning, but that's who I thought of when I saw Paintrain's numbers.

I don't know if I like a E. Manning example because he's probably not as good a QB as Campbell, just playing the odds. His play was a big reason why the Giants won the SB two years ago. But whose to say that if our defense could have gotten Jason into the playoffs at 10-6 by not imploding down the stretch, and staying in the top quadrant of defenses, he wouldn't have surprised everyone and led Zorn to a super bowl in his first year as HC?

I mean, yeah, pie in the sky scenario. But no less realistic than calling a Giants championship in 2007 or a Cardinals championship this year (which didn't happen, but you know, no fault to the QB position).

G-What imploded last year that led to that decrease in projection? The O-line right? So how is Derrick Dockery alone going to fix that? And in turn, if the Oline flounders again due to injury(entirely possible), then Jason's gone. Possibly to flourish somewhere else. I don't think there's another way to look at it. Right or wrong.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Monksdown

G-What imploded last year that led to that decrease in projection? The O-line right? So how is Derrick Dockery alone going to fix that? And in turn, if the Oline flounders again due to injury(entirely possible), then Jason's gone. Possibly to flourish somewhere else. I don't think there's another way to look at it. Right or wrong.

If Samuels doesn't get injured, Campbell's December looks very very different.

But it wasn't just the OLine. You could see it in Zorn's gameplanning. Campbell and Portis were the only guys you could trust to run any play right. Moss had no big play ability, ARE dropped off the face of the planet, Thomas and Kelly were useless, Yoder played himself off the field, even Sellers made two huge game changing mistakes in that month. Cooley fumbled a game away. And THEN the protection from not only the OL, but the usually dependable Portis was crap.

So yeah, there was a lot of heat on Zorn because it was an entire offensive breakdown. And Campbell showed a lot of poise in altering his game to pick up a lot of the offensive slack. Became a leader, if you want to use those terms. Leaders tend to arise out of adverse situations, not because things are going well.

And he played all 16 games. Which is very underrated, IMO. Because after the Cincinnati loss, there was nothing left to gain from leaving him out there behind that line. But not only did he not break down, he made some week to week improvements, and almost won the SF game singlehandedly.

So I like Campbell for that, and I like Campbell for his composure this offseason. I don't know if he will turn into a great quarterback, but I would suggest if he doesn't, we find out why he didn't, and fix it fast.