lebron, WOW

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by an23dy

I'll agree with you on most of your points, but I do have some comments on your comments. The Kobe retaliating point is good and I don't like it, but I'd rather that than somebody just act tough all the time and never back it up and then flop around everywhere and cry all game. Just like I have no respect for the way Manu Ginobli and the way he plays. I'm sure my points have flaws in them and I may see LeBron a little too critically since I was a Jordan fan, but some of this stuff has to have some truth to it.

1) I would say LeBron is the biggest culprit of taking advantage of traveling.

2) I don't like Kobe either. He's one of the guys I dislike most, but I see LeBron as worse because he doesn't understand the game. How can LeBron be so ignorant to continue to say he didn't travel against the Wizards even though everyone is against him, he didn't have a single person in his corner.

3) I don't think they're protecting one player, but they do protect the stars and he seems to benefit the most from it as he is the rising star of the NBA. That along with traveling are two reasons why I dislike the NBA and how it takes away from the purity of the game and real competition to find out who is better without unfair influence.

4) He's good, definitely, I just don't like how he is handed everything by the refs and then complains and acts like a child. He nor Kobe carries themselves like Jordan did. They all competed on the court, but Jordan just seemed to carry himself with so much more respect and he seemed to have so much more knowledge about the game. Maybe when LeBron is older he'll be different, but I think it's also a lot because these guys never played ball in college. I think that's where you learn about discipline and hard work and you get an education, not only about basketball but about life. Jordan learned from Dean Smith, but Kobe and LeBron never had a mentor like that.

5) I wouldn't use one shot to prove he is clutch. He's young so he'll get a lot more chances on that front.

that statement leads me to believe you know nothing about hoops. James scores a ton, leads his team in assists, and grabs 8-9 boards a game. he was also second in defensive player of the year voting. because he is smart enough to take advantage of the way a game is called is using the rules to your advantage. he would be stupid not to. and he also knows if he complains enough about that traveling call, the next time its a no call. and on top of that, he is one step way from taking Mo Williams, and 3 stiffs to the finals again

[an23dy]

Originally Posted by dmek25

that statement leads me to believe you know nothing about hoops. James scores a ton, leads his team in assists, and grabs 8-9 boards a game. he was also second in defensive player of the year voting. because he is smart enough to take advantage of the way a game is called is using the rules to your advantage. he would be stupid not to. and he also knows if he complains enough about that traveling call, the next time its a no call. and on top of that, he is one step way from taking Mo Williams, and 3 stiffs to the finals again

I know a lot about basketball, maybe more than LeBron. If he really thinks he didn't travel and he made up a new move that allows 3 steps and doesn't see what's wrong with those 2 things, when nobody agrees with him on either topic, then I will say I am smarter than him just based on that. He may know how to jump high and bowl people over and travel and score points, but that doesn't mean he knows the game. Just because you're good at something doesn't mean you have to understand it. I think LeBron has better players around him than people give him credit. Mo Williams is an all-star, he's just coming into his own in the NBA. Daniel Gibson won the 3-point contest and he doesn't even play now. Ben Wallace is a former all star and he doesn't play that much. Joe Smith is a former #1 pick. Wally Sczerbiak was an all-star and he averaged double digits every year until he got to Cleveland. It seems like everybody gets worse whenever they come to the Cavs. Maybe LeBron's style of play isn't beneficial to other members of the team.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by an23dy

I know a lot about basketball, maybe more than LeBron. If he really thinks he didn't travel and he made up a new move that allows 3 steps and doesn't see what's wrong with those 2 things, when nobody agrees with him on either topic, then I will say I am smarter than him just based on that. He may know how to jump high and bowl people over and travel and score points, but that doesn't mean he knows the game. Just because you're good at something doesn't mean you have to understand it. I think LeBron has better players around him than people give him credit. Mo Williams is an all-star, he's just coming into his own in the NBA. Daniel Gibson won the 3-point contest and he doesn't even play now. Ben Wallace is a former all star and he doesn't play that much. Joe Smith is a former #1 pick. Wally Sczerbiak was an all-star and he averaged double digits every year until he got to Cleveland. It seems like everybody gets worse whenever they come to the Cavs. Maybe LeBron's style of play isn't beneficial to other members of the team.

I happen to know that you must know a lot about basketball, but we'll just keep that between us.

That said though don't you think you're giving too much credit to a couple of the guys here. Wallace hasn't done anything for several years now and Joe Smith has hardly ever been worthy of #1 pick status. I don't think those guys got worse once they got to the Cavs. They've been on the decline for a while.

I think that LeBron is a dominating player by himself, but I agree that I don't see his play elevating those around him. Not yet, at least. There are few players that really have that ability. You'd agree with that right? Off the top of my head, Chris Paul, Tim Duncan, Steve Nash, and even Kobe come to mind. What about you?

[GMScud]

Wow is right. It's almost not watchable the way LeBron is officiated. He falls over trying to dribble penetrate and they call a foul. What a joke. Awful call. Just downright awful. Then Varejao fouls Howard on the inbounds and no call there. Paaaa-thetic.

The NBA annoys the hell out of me. Smug David Stern and his crooked refs. I hope Denver and Orlando are taking personally the fact that Nike is already advertising Kobe vs. LeBron.

It's completely out of spite right now that I want to see Denver vs. Orlando. I'm appalled. Truly appalled.

[jamf]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Wow is right. It's almost not watchable the way LeBron is officiated. He falls over trying to dribble penetrate and they call a foul. What a joke. Awful call. Just downright awful. Then Varejao fouls Howard on the inbounds and no call there. Paaaa-thetic.

The NBA annoys the hell out of me. Smug David Stern and his crooked refs. I hope Denver and Orlando are taking personally the fact that Nike is already advertising Kobe vs. LeBron.

It's completely out of spite right now that I want to see Denver vs. Orlando. I'm appalled. Truly appalled.

Not only is it painful to watch Lebron get all the calls it's even more painful to watch him cry for a call every stinking possession. I honestly think he expects one every time he goes to the basket.

[Zerohero]

Who is watching the game? Absolutely no contact on Lebron and they call a foul so cleveland can tie up it. Horrible call.

[an23dy]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I happen to know that you must know a lot about basketball, but we'll just keep that between us.

That said though don't you think you're giving too much credit to a couple of the guys here. Wallace hasn't done anything for several years now and Joe Smith has hardly ever been worthy of #1 pick status. I don't think those guys got worse once they got to the Cavs. They've been on the decline for a while.

I think that LeBron is a dominating player by himself, but I agree that I don't see his play elevating those around him. Not yet, at least. There are few players that really have that ability. You'd agree with that right? Off the top of my head, Chris Paul, Tim Duncan, Steve Nash, and even Kobe come to mind. What about you?

First of all, yeah Magic, getting it done. All right, so this is a lil bit of a rant and LeBron is very talented, but it's frustrating because he is overhyped in terms of making his team better and he lives a lot off of the refs treating him favorably.

I definitely am giving the Cavs guys too much credit, but they aren't slouches either. A lot of those guys are in the decline of their career, but I still think they can play at a very high level. I think Wallace has still got it on D, but he's never had much offense. Those veteran guys know how to play and they make the team better, especially in the play-offs. I would put Cleveland's bench up against most teams if not just about every team. I think the reason why the Cavs guys don't get a lot of credit is because they are not scorers and LeBron's style doesn't allow them to be anyways. Varejao is a great defender/rebounder, Wallace also, but the average fan doesn't know how important that is. A team with all scorers would not do that well. That's why the US Olympic team wasn't winning, they had to re-focus on defense. LeBron definitely does help his team on the defensive end with his intensity, but I think he needs to learn a lil more about the game to help his team and his teammates on offense. People might think, oh he scores 30 ppg, he can't get any better on offense, but it's how you play. Just like I don't think Iverson has helped any of the teams he has been to even though he scores a ton.

I'll agree with you that those players you listed all help their team (I think Nash is a huge liabilty on D however, but I think he contribuites more to an offense than anybody). Also, all those guys I consider to be smart players. I think a big part of being a smart player is knowing how to play to make your team better. I don't put LeBron in that category, but that may come in time. I think LeBron needs a different coach instead of somebody that just pats him on the back.

As far as tonight, first I'll say ... finally, it took them til 30 seconds left in OT, but finally they didn't give LeBron every call. LeBron wasn't playing that good, under 50% from the field again, had 8 TO's, and was only scoring because he was getting a lot of calls as usual until the very end. They should call it like that all game. Every call at the end of the game was 100% right and LeBron was still complaining.