Obama Care

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

^ what a load of fear mongering crap.

Kind of like this??

Mr Obama told NBC on Tuesday: “Doing nothing means that you’re going to lose what you have . . . Because on the current trajectory, your premiums are going to double again over the next five to 10 years.”

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Kind of like this??

Mr Obama told NBC on Tuesday: “Doing nothing means that you’re going to lose what you have . . . Because on the current trajectory, your premiums are going to double again over the next five to 10 years.”

that too. Need some tall boots.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

^ what a load of fear mongering crap.

I guess the NY Times, Washington Post, USA Today, BBC, and Canadian Med Assoc are putting out "fear mongering crap" too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/27/he...cy/27care.html

Shortage of surgeons pinches U.S. hospitals - USATODAY.com

Primary-Care Doctor Shortage May Undermine Health Reform Efforts - washingtonpost.com

BBC NEWS | UK | Scotland | Hospitals 'face doctor shortage'

Junior doctor shortage causes cancelled operations | Mail Online

Canada's doctor shortage to worsen without changes: Fraser report

CMA - Asks

We're already beginning to experience a doctor shortage in the U.S. because of cost of schooling, spiraling malpractice insurance(because Congress won't pass caps on malpractice awards), and government rules/regs/payment limits for primary care docs. But I'm sure my point is completely wrong and everything will work out fine....just trust Premier Obama and the Politburo.

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I guess the NY Times, Washington Post, USA Today, BBC, and Canadian Med Assoc are putting out "fear mongering crap" too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/27/he...cy/27care.html

Shortage of surgeons pinches U.S. hospitals - USATODAY.com

Primary-Care Doctor Shortage May Undermine Health Reform Efforts - washingtonpost.com

BBC NEWS | UK | Scotland | Hospitals 'face doctor shortage'

Junior doctor shortage causes cancelled operations | Mail Online

Canada's doctor shortage to worsen without changes: Fraser report

CMA - Asks

We're already beginning to experience a doctor shortage in the U.S. because of cost of schooling, spiraling malpractice insurance(because Congress won't pass caps on malpractice awards), and government rules/regs/payment limits for primary care docs. But I'm sure my point is completely wrong and everything will work out fine....just trust Premier Obama and the Politburo.

Riiiight but the fear mongering is the focus on how if we change from our current system, the sky will fall, there will be no doctors, blah blah blah. Or how if we don't change our system, the bills will be out of control, etc. The point is that there ARE plenty of issues with the current system that need corrected, and there are ways to correct them both via modification of our current sys and via conversion to a new methodology. Everyone is too concerned with bombast to be proactive. There's no reason the gov shouldn't look at all of these issues and work on creating a system from the ground up whereby most of them are eliminated (socialist or not, that's right I went there ). But too many people are getting paid with the status quo, so there's a lot of static out there. Why not revise/subsidize med school? Why not reduce/eliminate malpractice litigation? These things have already been proposed ad nauseam but the truth is that this is a HUGE industry with HUGE lobbying power and they are going to fight any/all reform every step of the way.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

The point is that there ARE plenty of issues with the current system that need corrected, and there are ways to correct them both via modification of our current sys and via conversion to a new methodology. Everyone is too concerned with bombast to be proactive. There's no reason the gov shouldn't look at all of these issues and work on creating a system from the ground up whereby most of them are eliminated (socialist or not, that's right I went there ). But too many people are getting paid with the status quo, so there's a lot of static out there. Why not revise/subsidize med school? Why not reduce/eliminate malpractice litigation? These things have already been proposed ad nauseam but the truth is that this is a HUGE industry with HUGE lobbying power and they are going to fight any/all reform every step of the way.

I agree with you, the current system has issues and needs to be reformed....not scrapped and rebuilt in dramatic haste by a Dem supermajority that currently weilds ALL the political clout. This current legislation that's being crammed down our throats hasn't been thoroughly evaluated and I'll bet money over half the people voting on this thing haven't even read 10% of it. And if it's passed in its current form, the things I mentioned that will happen, or I'll send you a dollar (I'm not a high roller like saden).

P.S. no problem with a program for gov't grants/loans for med school. Reducing malpractice litigation would be a HUGE plus for docs and the medical industry. It's the left and the trail lawyers that are lobbying against that.

[CRedskinsRule]

I just wonder if we could set up a Medical Academy, along the lines of the military academies. Seems like at the least that would be in the national interest. I know there are tons of institutions already, but if we could establish one where students went and basically accepted an obligatory national service period after, like the military requirements, maybe we could do something good.

[JoeRedskin]

I like that idea.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

I like that idea.

And, like Saden always says, I would be willing to pay more taxes for it, maybe greed hasn't eaten through to my very core yet

[BleedBurgundy]

Those of you who constantly argue against the evils of "big government" need to remember that big business can be just as bad/worse. You're getting ****ed either way, just depends on who's doing the thrusting. With the federal gov't, at least there's the illusion of oversight.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

Those of you who constantly argue against the evils of "big government" need to remember that big business can be just as bad/worse. You're getting ****ed either way, just depends on who's doing the thrusting. With the federal gov't, at least there's the illusion of oversight.

Illusion is an interesting choice of words there. Are you saying that perception is reality?

And now I will drop a random TJ quote..."It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself."

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Illusion is an interesting choice of words there. Are you saying that perception is reality?

And now I will drop a random TJ quote..."It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself."

I'm saying that if anyone realistically believes there is any true oversight of public officials or private corporations, whether it be via 4th estate or internal mechanisms, they are kidding themselves. So yes, in this case, perception is reality. The individual is not heard by either party, corp. or gov. But with the nature of our government, there is at least hope that there could one day be transparency and that the greater good is what is being looked after, and not the bottom line. The same cannot be said for business.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

I'm saying that if anyone realistically believes there is any true oversight of public officials or private corporations, whether it be via 4th estate or internal mechanisms, they are kidding themselves. So yes, in this case, perception is reality. The individual is not heard by either party, corp. or gov. But with the nature of our government, there is at least hope that there could one day be transparency and that the greater good is what is being looked after, and not the bottom line. The same cannot be said for business.

whoa, what nature is that??? politicians run for the same reason corporate execs seek the top. power. the nature of our government like every government is a self expandingg seat of power. yes we have elections, yes we can boot the bums out, but lets be realistic, what is the turnover of politicians? unless they are real bad guys, or the president, they can stay in there forever. where is the transparency for a senator Byrd, or senator strom thurmond?

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

whoa, what nature is that??? politicians run for the same reason corporate execs seek the top. power. the nature of our government like every government is a self expandingg seat of power. yes we have elections, yes we can boot the bums out, but lets be realistic, what is the turnover of politicians? unless they are real bad guys, or the president, they can stay in there forever. where is the transparency for a senator Byrd, or senator strom thurmond?

Nature of democracy is what I was referring to. But I share your pessimism. The only real weapon any populace has is the threat of revolution.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

Those of you who constantly argue against the evils of "big government" need to remember that big business can be just as bad/worse. You're getting ****ed either way, just depends on who's doing the thrusting. With the federal gov't, at least there's the illusion of oversight.

I was thinking of something along this lines earlier. I will probably express it wrong:

With Big Business, everyone expects the executives to be evil/greedy/selfish, this in turn leads people to require oversight, and check all the fine print.

With Big Government, people expect the politicians to be seeking the public good, and this in turn leads people to allow Government self regulation, and turning a blind eye to bureaucratic malaise.

Which one leads to a better end product, that tends to be the root of alot of debates.

[dmek25]

so if a doctor mis-treats one of your family, you don't want him to pay? they need to be held accountable