Obama Care

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

What did I tell ya? These fools think health insurance is a human right.

It's not "health insurance" that is the basic human right, it's the health care. Pay the **** attention and stop distorting the issues. You're so wrapped up in rhetoric that you can't see the forest for the trees. Judging by your previous posts, you feel that spending untold sums haphazardly bombing this country and that is good foreign and fiscal policy. Still worse, you advocate denying citizens of what is supposed to be the preeminent nation in the world basic health care over a worst-case single digit percentage increase in federal taxes. Your logic is flawed at best and can thus be summed up: "Allocating federal funds towards preserving american lives through healthcare is waste. Conversely, spending federal funds on ending the lives of others based purely on philosophical differences is money well spent." That's the kind of logic that I, and most other rational humans, can't seem to understand. Perhaps it requires a form of moral flexibility I don't possess, like the kind necessary to fit my head up my own ass.

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

It's not "health insurance" that is the basic human right, it's the health care. Pay the **** attention and stop distorting the issues. You're so wrapped up in rhetoric that you can't see the forest for the trees. Judging by your previous posts, you feel that spending untold sums haphazardly bombing this country and that is good foreign and fiscal policy. Still worse, you advocate denying citizens of what is supposed to be the preeminent nation in the world basic health care over a worst-case single digit percentage increase in federal taxes. Your logic is flawed at best and can thus be summed up: "Allocating federal funds towards preserving american lives through healthcare is waste. Conversely, spending federal funds on ending the lives of others based purely on philosophical differences is money well spent." That's the kind of logic that I, and most other rational humans, can't seem to understand. Perhaps it requires a form of moral flexibility I don't possess, like the kind necessary to fit my head up my own ass.

He he he. It only took a few sentences to get you all worked up. So you think I'm for bombing everything and everyone huh? How about this? How about you pay for your own health care, insurance, clitorectamy, whatever!

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

He he he. It only took a few sentences to get you all worked up. So you think I'm for bombing everything and everyone huh? How about this? How about you pay for your own health care, insurance, clitorectamy, whatever!

That's just it, it's not about "me paying for my clitorectamy" dipshit. Abject stupidity is always good for getting a rise out of me. It's about realizing that there are those that for a multitude of socio-economic reasons do not have access to healthcare. That's a problem, period. With the GDP we have, there is no excuse for that. And as far as your foreign policy ideas, look over your own post history. The attitude of "me first" is at the root of most of what's wrong with this country.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

That's just it, it's not about "me paying for my clitorectamy" dipshit. Abject stupidity is always good for getting a rise out of me. It's about realizing that there are those that for a multitude of socio-economic reasons do not have access to healthcare. That's a problem, period. With the GDP we have, there is no excuse for that. And as far as your foreign policy ideas, look over your own post history. The attitude of "me first" is at the root of most of what's wrong with this country.

There's the disagreement. Many don't want to pay for health care for others. Your side sees health care as a right. The other side says "get a job" and pay for it yourself. Sounds harsh to me but the philosophy that everyone needs to be responsible for themselves and their family first sounds about right to me. Then we can worry about helping others. It seems to me we are slowly changing from that philosophy to one where it is far too easy for everyone to rely on the gov't and everyone else rather than themselves. There has to be a balance.

And please don't throw out "a single digit tax increase" like it is a few pennies. 9% is still single digits and would cripple the finances of a lot of people in this country. Not mention businesses that would then pass it on to customers.

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

There's the disagreement. Many don't want to pay for health care for others. Your side sees health care as a right. The other side says "get a job" and pay for it yourself. Sounds harsh to me but the philosophy that everyone needs to be responsible for themselves and their family first sounds about right to me. Then we can worry about helping others. It seems to me we are slowly changing from that philosophy to one where it is far too easy for everyone to rely on the gov't and everyone else rather than themselves. There has to be a balance.

And please don't throw out "a single digit tax increase" like it is a few pennies. 9% is still single digits and would cripple the finances of a lot of people in this country. Not mention businesses that would then pass it on to customers.

Show me a credible source that says 9%. But i do get your point, it's a difference in philosophy. But say healtcare was fully govt. provided. Using these figures, there is an annual cost of $65 billion to the 138 million U.S. taxpayers. That's a per payer cost (not "per citizen") of $471 per year. I don't know too many people that are going to go bankrupt over that figure. I know it's a simplistic approach, but you see my point.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

Show me a credible source that says 9%. But i do get your point, it's a difference in philosophy. But say healtcare was fully govt. provided. Using these figures, there is an annual cost of $65 billion to the 138 million U.S. taxpayers. That's a per payer cost (not "per citizen") of $471 per year. I don't know too many people that are going to go bankrupt over that figure. I know it's a simplistic approach, but you see my point.

The 9% was just a single-digit number. Nothing factual or anything. My point with the taxes really is that even a "small" tax increase is :

a) not small to everyone
b) one step towards the next "small" tax increases for whatever the flavor of the day idea is.

Those "small" tax increases are the reason we pay so much money for the things that you yourself stated were ridiculous. At some point taxing for more programs has to stop. At least we need to get right the programs we already tax for. maybe if we did that thenw e wouldn't have to raise taxes at all. I'd love to have a great health care system that worked great and efficient for all. Unfortunately I'd have to ride a unicorn to get to that magical fairy land where they have such utopian things. I prefer to fix the capitalistic disaster we currently have. With real changes, not window dressing that could make things worse according to just about anyone who knows anything about health care.

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

The 9% was just a single-digit number. Nothing factual or anything. My point with the taxes really is that even a "small" tax increase is :

a) not small to everyone
b) one step towards the next "small" tax increases for whatever the flavor of the day idea is.

Those "small" tax increases are the reason we pay so much money for the things that you yourself stated were ridiculous. At some point taxing for more programs has to stop. At least we need to get right the programs we already tax for. maybe if we did that thenw e wouldn't have to raise taxes at all. I'd love to have a great health care system that worked great and efficient for all. Unfortunately I'd have to ride a unicorn to get to that magical fairy land where they have such utopian things. I prefer to fix the capitalistic disaster we currently have. With real changes, not window dressing that could make things worse according to just about anyone who knows anything about health care.

Damn, and i was thinking of enlisting the leprechauns to help us out. Seriously though, of course there are going to be abuses/corruption. That's life, just as there are no doubt inefficiencies in the private sector which contribute to the current ridiculous cost of health care. But to be as advanced as we are, and not to have something in place is inexcusable. Our priorities are grossly skewed. We spend incredible amounts of money on far less important things, as I've previously pointed out. There are always going to be excuses to not do something of this nature, but at some point we as a country to realize the fundamental nature of healthcare and ensure every person in the country has access to it. I don't see that as imaginary, fairy tale stuff, i just see it as a shift in policy.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

That's just it, it's not about "me paying for my clitorectamy" dipshit. Abject stupidity is always good for getting a rise out of me. It's about realizing that there are those that for a multitude of socio-economic reasons do not have access to healthcare. That's a problem, period. With the GDP we have, there is no excuse for that. And as far as your foreign policy ideas, look over your own post history. The attitude of "me first" is at the root of most of what's wrong with this country.

So what is the number of people that cannot afford health care?

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by firstdown

So what is the number of people that cannot afford health care?

47 million, but then you have to believe those bastards at the Census Bureau.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

47 million, but then you have to believe those bastards at the Census Bureau.

Sorry thats not a correct number. That is a random number they use because the real number of people who cannot get coverage or afford coverage is much smaller. Heck that number includes illegals in the US.
[edit] Who are the uninsured?

The US Census Bureau annually reports statistics on the uninsured. According to its most recent figures, in 2007, nearly 37 million of the uninsured were employment-age adults (ages 18 to 64), and more than 27 million worked at least part time. Approximately 61% of the roughly 45 million uninsured live in households with incomes under $50,000 (13.5 million below $25,000 and 14.5 million at $25,000 to $49,000).[1] And 38% live in households with incomes of $50,000 or more (8.5 million at $50,000 to $74,999 and 9.1 million at $75,000 or more.
According to the Census Bureau, people of Hispanic origin were the most affected by being uninsured; nearly a third of Hispanics lack health insurance. However, this rate decreased slightly from 2006 to 2007, from 15.3 to 14.8 million, a decrease of 2 percentage points (34.1% to 32.1%). The state with the highest percentage of uninsured was Texas (24.1% average for three years, 2004-2006). New Mexico has the second highest percentage of residents without health insurance at 22%.[3]
It has been estimated that nearly one fifth of the uninsured population is able to afford insurance, almost one quarter is eligible for public coverage, and the remaining 56% need financial assistance (8.9% of all Americans).[4] An estimated 5 million of those without health insurance are considered "uninsurable" because of pre-existing conditions.[5] A recent study concluded that 15% of people shopping online for health insurance are considered "uninsurable" because of a pre-existing condition, or for being overweight. This label does not necessarily mean they can never get health insurance, but that they will not qualify for standard individual coverage. People with similar health status can be covered via employer-provided health insurance, Medicare, or Medicaid

For the entire article:
Uninsured in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One other thing BB is 65 billion just to fix the uninsured?

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Sorry thats not a correct number. That is a random number they use because the real number of people who cannot get coverage or afford coverage is much smaller. Heck that number includes illegals in the US.
[edit] Who are the uninsured?

The US Census Bureau annually reports statistics on the uninsured. According to its most recent figures, in 2007, nearly 37 million of the uninsured were employment-age adults (ages 18 to 64), and more than 27 million worked at least part time. Approximately 61% of the roughly 45 million uninsured live in households with incomes under $50,000 (13.5 million below $25,000 and 14.5 million at $25,000 to $49,000).[1] And 38% live in households with incomes of $50,000 or more (8.5 million at $50,000 to $74,999 and 9.1 million at $75,000 or more.
According to the Census Bureau, people of Hispanic origin were the most affected by being uninsured; nearly a third of Hispanics lack health insurance. However, this rate decreased slightly from 2006 to 2007, from 15.3 to 14.8 million, a decrease of 2 percentage points (34.1% to 32.1%). The state with the highest percentage of uninsured was Texas (24.1% average for three years, 2004-2006). New Mexico has the second highest percentage of residents without health insurance at 22%.[3]
It has been estimated that nearly one fifth of the uninsured population is able to afford insurance, almost one quarter is eligible for public coverage, and the remaining 56% need financial assistance (8.9% of all Americans).[4] An estimated 5 million of those without health insurance are considered "uninsurable" because of pre-existing conditions.[5] A recent study concluded that 15% of people shopping online for health insurance are considered "uninsurable" because of a pre-existing condition, or for being overweight. This label does not necessarily mean they can never get health insurance, but that they will not qualify for standard individual coverage. People with similar health status can be covered via employer-provided health insurance, Medicare, or Medicaid

For the entire article:
Uninsured in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One other thing BB is 65 billion just to fix the uninsured?

A random number is 22, because I just made it up. Let's look at your numbers though, at the minimum the correct "firstdown adjusted" figure would be just over 27 million American citizens. You're comfortable with that? Really?

btw- 304,000,000 total population * .089 (8.9% from above) ≈ 27 m uninsured.

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

That's just it, it's not about "me paying for my clitorectamy" dipshit. Abject stupidity is always good for getting a rise out of me. It's about realizing that there are those that for a multitude of socio-economic reasons do not have access to healthcare. That's a problem, period. With the GDP we have, there is no excuse for that. And as far as your foreign policy ideas, look over your own post history. The attitude of "me first" is at the root of most of what's wrong with this country.

Stop! You have to stop! My face is going to start bleeding burgundy if you don't stop making me laugh. My co-workers are staring at me.

Really, I don't need to look over my past posts to know my own opinion. It doesn't change from day to day like a politicians. I don't think we should bomb everyone. That would be bad for business, just Bin Laden.

Socio-economic reasons? Save the college-speak. You mean they're poor. Is it that you don't have the balls to go out and help them yourself? Do you just want the government to tax everyone so you will not have to get your hands dirty? How about you take your own money and time down to the local food shelter and serve up spaghetti? How about you go and volunteer at the local state hospital? Perhaps you'll just leave that up to someone else?

Who is we? My GDP is next to nothing. What makes you think I can afford to give even more money to help someone else?

You really think that these oligarchs are going to cut the military? HA HA HA Not when they're getting fat from the contracts. It will be the same for national health care. I've got a five spot that says I'm right. Who wants in?

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

Stop! You have to stop! My face is going to start bleeding burgundy if you don't stop making me laugh. My co-workers are staring at me.

Really, I don't need to look over my past posts to know my own opinion. It doesn't change from day to day like a politicians. I don't think we should bomb everyone. That would be bad for business, just Bin Laden.

Socio-economic reasons? Save the college-speak. You mean they're poor. Is it that you don't have the balls to go out and help them yourself? Do you just want the government to tax everyone so you will not have to get your hands dirty? How about you take your own money and time down to the local food shelter and serve up spaghetti? How about you go and volunteer at the local state hospital? Perhaps you'll just leave that up to someone else?

Who is we? My GDP is next to nothing. What makes you think I can afford to give even more money to help someone else?

You really think that these oligarchs are going to cut the military? HA HA HA Not when they're getting fat from the contracts. It will be the same for national health care. I've got a five spot that says I'm right. Who wants in?

If so, then you should be agreeing with me. Since it is apparently the only way your broke ass is going to get healthcare. Also, i'm no pharmacist, but what exactly are the medicinal properties of spaghetti and meatballs?

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

If so, then you should be agreeing with me. Since it is apparently the only way your broke ass is going to get healthcare. Also, i'm no pharmacist, but what exactly are the medicinal properties of spaghetti and meatballs?

Don't go assuming things. My company offers health insurance. I used to have Anthem, but when an old lady blind-sided me they told me that my full coverage insurance didn't cover emergency room visits. I don't have health insurance for a reason, it's a racket.

I'm not broke either. It's just that after I'm finished paying for my own way through life (plus taxes) there's not much left over for bums and rich progressives who don't have to work for a living. I can afford to buy health insurance but why should I? When I really need it they'll tell me I'm not covered.

Let me spell it out for you. If you're so concerned for the poor and sick why don't you get off your ass and go and help them yourself? If that's not direct enough, how about you mind your own business and stop trying to get a free lunch. That's what this all boils down to. You and every other do-gooder stick your noses in other people's business and get upset when we don't like it.

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

Don't go assuming things. My company offers health insurance. I used to have Anthem, but when an old lady blind-sided me they told me that my full coverage insurance didn't cover emergency room visits. I don't have health insurance for a reason, it's a racket.

I'm not broke either. It's just that after I'm finished paying for my own way through life (plus taxes) there's not much left over for bums and rich progressives who don't have to work for a living. I can afford to buy health insurance but why should I? When I really need it they'll tell me I'm not covered.

Let me spell it out for you. If you're so concerned for the poor and sick why don't you get off your ass and go and help them yourself? If that's not direct enough, how about you mind your own business and stop trying to get a free lunch. That's what this all boils down to. You and every other do-gooder stick your noses in other people's business and get upset when we don't like it.

lol. Look, i'm far, far, far from wealthy. But i don't mind paying out a bit extra if it means everyone gets to see the doctor. Me working to pay that bit extra is me "getting off my ass." Not sure there's a free lunch anywhere in this scenario since it's all being paid for by the taxpayer, i.e. you and I. I'm not going to comment on your personal decisions as to why not to carry any sort of health insurance, but for your sake I hope you don't run into a situation where you need it. AND- for the first time ever, i agree with you that health insurance is somewhat of a "racket." Which does nothing so much as make the case for it to be supervised and regulated by the gov, more so than it already is.