Redskins Select Jarmon in 3rd Round of Supplemental Draft

[an23dy]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

But it's not the same at all. If we trade the pick for a player, then another team gets an additional player with our pick. We get a player with our own pick, we just get him 9 months early. It's like Ruhskins said, so many people and fans are conditioned to think that we 'gave up a pick' that anything we do outside of the month of April is a negative.

If the Eagles picked him (and they supposedly put in a 4th round claim) then there would be endless platitudes about how savvy Joe Banner and Andy Reid are for using the supplemental draft and adding a potentially valuable player, not that they threw away a pick.

This whole thing started because I mixed my words so it doesn't really matter, but I think it doesn't matter what the other team gets, I don't care about the Dolphins, all that matters to me is the Redskins. From a Redskin-centric viewpoint.
July 2008 - Get Jason Taylor
April 2009 - No 2nd round draft pick
July 2009 - Get Jeremy Jarmon
April 2010 - No 3rd round pick

All of that's irrelevant though, it all comes down to whether you think the guy is worth a 3rd round pick. I think the value is comparable. I would've been happy if he had fell to the 4th round. I wonder if Jarmon will get paid comparable to Kevin Barnes. You would have to think it would be less since he's supplemental, but there would be a slight increase in pay next year for 3rd round picks.

[ethat001]

Originally Posted by an23dy

From a Redskin-centric viewpoint.
July 2008 - Get Jason Taylor
April 2009 - No 2nd round draft pick
July 2009 - Get Jeremy Jarmon
April 2010 - No 3rd round pick

This is completely wrong, there IS a third round pick in 2010, and we just USED it to pick Jarmon. Geez, it's been said again and again in this thread. We DRAFTED A GUY IN THE THIRD ROUND NEXT YEAR.

This is the EXACT same thing as us drafting Jarmon next year. Imagine in the third round 2010 hearing "Redskins select Jarmon, Defensive End from Kentucky." That's EXACTLY what we just did.


We did NOT give up anything. To judge this, you merely have to ask -- was he worth the third round pick. From what we heard so far -- he probably is.

[skinsnut]

Originally Posted by ethat001

To judge this, you merely have to ask -- was he worth the third round pick. From what we heard so far -- he probably is.

I disagree.
The only team to consider him a 3rd round pick was the Redskins.
31 other teams agree with me.

Don't be a sucker for Ceratto's post pick spin...that he was a 2nd round grade crap....he has to say that to justify paying more than others.

The rest of the NFL considers him a 4th round pick...we just spent more because of need....something the Skins say they don't do.
Remember...they just pick the "best player available"....considering this was a draft of one....they got him.

I hope I am wrong about this and this guy ends up a starter, I am just on the fence whether we should gamble a 3rd rounder on this particular guy.
The rest of the NFL agrees with me.

[TenandSix:Unacceptable]

Originally Posted by skinsnut

I disagree.
The only team to consider him a 3rd round pick was the Redskins.
31 other teams agree with me.

Don't be a sucker for Ceratto's post pick spin...that he was a 2nd round grade crap....he has to say that to justify paying more than others.

The rest of the NFL considers him a 4th round pick...we just spent more because of need....something the Skins say they don't do.
Remember...they just pick the "best player available"....considering this was a draft of one....they got him.

I hope I am wrong about this and this guy ends up a starter, I am just on the fence whether we should gamble a 3rd rounder on this particular guy.
The rest of the NFL agrees with me.

Not necessarily.

We took this player with as late of a pick as we could have used to get him. If we put a fourth round pick in we don't get this player. In essence, the 'Skins gauged correctly what the conventional thinking would be on this player and did just enough to land him. Besides, what is the real difference between the first pick in the fourth round and a mid third-rounder? This move certainly doesn't scream "Holy overpayment, Batman" when you consider how small of a reach it was from the second place bid.

I think the fact that there were so many suitors in the fourth makes Vinny look justified in using a third, not the other way around. If there were only 5th round bids, and Vinny used a third, then you could say that the Redskins badly overpaid and our "GM" would rightfully be the laughingstock of the NFL yet again.

In the end, the rest of the NFL agrees that we paid as little as we could have to land this player.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by TenandSix:Unacceptable

Not necessarily.

We took this player with as late of a pick as we could have used to get him. If we put a fourth round pick in we don't get this player. In essence, the 'Skins gauged correctly what the conventional thinking would be on this player and did just enough to land him. Besides, what is the real difference between the first pick in the fourth round and a mid third-rounder? This move certainly doesn't scream "Holy overpayment, Batman" when you consider how small of a reach it was from the second place bid.

I think the fact that there were so many suitors in the fourth makes Vinny look justified in using a third, not the other way around. If there were only 5th round bids, and Vinny used a third, then you could say that the Redskins badly overpaid and our "GM" would rightfully be the laughingstock of the NFL yet again.

In the end, the rest of the NFL agrees that we paid as little as we could have to land this player.

Well said.

[GridIron26]

Originally Posted by skinsnut

I disagree.
The only team to consider him a 3rd round pick was the Redskins.
31 other teams agree with me.

Don't be a sucker for Ceratto's post pick spin...that he was a 2nd round grade crap....he has to say that to justify paying more than others.

The rest of the NFL considers him a 4th round pick...we just spent more because of need....something the Skins say they don't do.
Remember...they just pick the "best player available"....considering this was a draft of one....they got him.

I have to admit, that thought was in my mind as well when Vinny explained it.. Until then, I just read this article:

NFL: The Washington Redskins hope they beat the supplemental draft odds in their selection of Jeremy Jarmon - ESPN

Many scouts agree that Jarmon probably would have been a second-round prospect next April had he played his final season for the Wildcats. He likely will be a situational player this season, learning from fellow rookie Orakpo and veteran ends Phillip Daniels and Andre Carter.

This certainly should make many fans including you to feel better.. Beside just like tenandsix:unacceptable explained, it's not llike we OVERpaid for this guy.. Although there's some irony in argument; the article explains history of supplementary drafts, which shows the supplementary draft to might be not good thing..

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by skinsnut

The rest of the NFL considers him a 4th round pick...we just spent more because of need....something the Skins say they don't do.

That's not necessarily true. A bid does not always indicate how much the bidder thinks the "product" is worth. For example, suppose you think a house is worth $500,000. You know others are interested in the house, but they're unlikely to bid more than $450,000. Are you going to bid $500,000 for the house, or something like $451,000? You're going to bid $451,000 and come away thinking you "made" $49,000.

Similarly, here, for all we know, the other teams that bid on Jarmon thought he was worth a 2nd round pick, but thought no team would bid a 2nd or 3rd rounder. For all we know, some of those very interested teams wish they had bid a 3rd round pick.

By most accounts, Jarmon graded out as 2nd or 3rd round pick. So, in my view, we didn't necessarily overpay to acquire Jarmon. Did we bid more than the other teams? Sure, but that's always the case with winning bids and it doesn't really tell us whether we got robbed, or made out like bandits.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by skinsnut

I disagree.
The only team to consider him a 3rd round pick was the Redskins.
31 other teams agree with me.

Don't be a sucker for Ceratto's post pick spin...that he was a 2nd round grade crap....he has to say that to justify paying more than others.

The rest of the NFL considers him a 4th round pick...we just spent more because of need....something the Skins say they don't do.
Remember...they just pick the "best player available"....considering this was a draft of one....they got him.

I hope I am wrong about this and this guy ends up a starter, I am just on the fence whether we should gamble a 3rd rounder on this particular guy.
The rest of the NFL agrees with me.

Actually, one thing you can say about vinny's picks is that he isn't scared to go against the grain of what the nfl norm is. I don't think anyone had rinehart or tryon as 3rd & 4th rnd. picks e.g. And this year some observers thought that Glenn in the 5th was a reach. Some thought Colt was a reach even getting drafted.

That said, I don't think Vinny puts a "spin" on it per se, he tells the press that they pick guys because THEY (not other nfl teams) have them rated high.

For better or worse, vinny doesn't seem scared to make picks based on he & his scouts' research, rather than referring to whatever scouts,inc. et al have to say about where a player projects in the draft.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by skinsnut

I disagree.
The only team to consider him a 3rd round pick was the Redskins.
31 other teams agree with me.

Don't be a sucker for Ceratto's post pick spin...that he was a 2nd round grade crap....he has to say that to justify paying more than others.

The rest of the NFL considers him a 4th round pick...we just spent more because of need....something the Skins say they don't do.
Remember...they just pick the "best player available"....considering this was a draft of one....they got him.

I hope I am wrong about this and this guy ends up a starter, I am just on the fence whether we should gamble a 3rd rounder on this particular guy.
The rest of the NFL agrees with me.

I don't have a problem giving up the 3rd rounder next year. If they like the guy then so be it. What bothers me is the way Vinny goes about hyping guys up.

[vallin21]

I still don't get why we're still debating this. Yeah Vinny does overhype players, but the kid had a 2nd round grade and not just by us. Time will tell whether he was worth it, but you at least have to give rops to the FO for adressing a weakness, and getting a guy who if not for his suspension would've been a 2-3 in 2010. So to get him almost a year early is huge. I just don't get how anyone can say this is a bad move.

[an23dy]

Originally Posted by ethat001

This is completely wrong, there IS a third round pick in 2010, and we just USED it to pick Jarmon. Geez, it's been said again and again in this thread. We DRAFTED A GUY IN THE THIRD ROUND NEXT YEAR.

This is the EXACT same thing as us drafting Jarmon next year. Imagine in the third round 2010 hearing "Redskins select Jarmon, Defensive End from Kentucky." That's EXACTLY what we just did.


We did NOT give up anything. To judge this, you merely have to ask -- was he worth the third round pick. From what we heard so far -- he probably is.

Direct quote from me at the end of my post that you just replied to, "it all comes down to whether you think the guy is worth a 3rd round pick."
I understand what's happening. There is nothing incorrect about my statement. In April 2010 we will not be making a pick in the 3rd round. It will say selection forfeited to draft Jeremy Jarmon in 2009 NFL supplemental draft.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by ethat001

This is completely wrong, there IS a third round pick in 2010, and we just USED it to pick Jarmon. Geez, it's been said again and again in this thread. We DRAFTED A GUY IN THE THIRD ROUND NEXT YEAR.

This is the EXACT same thing as us drafting Jarmon next year. Imagine in the third round 2010 hearing "Redskins select Jarmon, Defensive End from Kentucky." That's EXACTLY what we just did.


We did NOT give up anything. To judge this, you merely have to ask -- was he worth the third round pick. From what we heard so far -- he probably is.

Well, it's not exactly the same thing. Jarmon was not in the 2010 draft.

If Jarmon had entered the 2009 draft as a redshirt junior, under his own choice, would we still have traded up into the third round after the Barnes pick to get him? Or would we have rated him more highly on the board than Barnes?

Because there are a bunch of guys that were given second round grades at that point. Barnes had a second round game from this team. There was probably at least one defensive lineman who would have had a higher grade than Jarmon at the pick.

If he had been in the 2009 regular draft, we would have got a much better idea of his value than the fact that a bunch of teams were willing to take 4th round flyers on him. He probably would have been a 4th or a 5th round pick in last year's draft.

Anyway, there's a huge difference between having a second round grade from the Redskins, and having been a likely second round pick. Every pick on the second day is made by a team who thinks they got a steal.

Anyway, like I said earlier, if we acutally do get a second round pick out of Jarmon, then using a supplemental third on him is a huge steal. But that assessment that Vinny had is a little bit higher than anyone elses assessment. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

It's important to remember that while looking at all the teams that put a claim in the 4th round is one way to judge his value, that still leaves two unanswered questions: 1) how many of those teams were willing to overpay by a round to bolster their defense this year? and 2) why did no team who won more games than us last year think he was worth a third round claim, if in fact he was a potential second round prospect?

[skins89moss]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Well, it's not exactly the same thing. Jarmon was not in the 2010 draft.

If Jarmon had entered the 2009 draft as a redshirt junior, under his own choice, would we still have traded up into the third round after the Barnes pick to get him? Or would we have rated him more highly on the board than Barnes?

Because there are a bunch of guys that were given second round grades at that point. Barnes had a second round game from this team. There was probably at least one defensive lineman who would have had a higher grade than Jarmon at the pick.

If he had been in the 2009 regular draft, we would have got a much better idea of his value than the fact that a bunch of teams were willing to take 4th round flyers on him. He probably would have been a 4th or a 5th round pick in last year's draft.

Anyway, there's a huge difference between having a second round grade from the Redskins, and having been a likely second round pick. Every pick on the second day is made by a team who thinks they got a steal.

Anyway, like I said earlier, if we acutally do get a second round pick out of Jarmon, then using a supplemental third on him is a huge steal. But that assessment that Vinny had is a little bit higher than anyone elses assessment. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

It's important to remember that while looking at all the teams that put a claim in the 4th round is one way to judge his value, that still leaves two unanswered questions: 1) how many of those teams were willing to overpay by a round to bolster their defense this year? and 2) why did no team who won more games than us last year think he was worth a third round claim, if in fact he was a potential second round prospect?

This pick was based on a need for the Redskins. Remember Jason Taylor was released and we got only 1year from him. We resign Wynn and Daniels who are both veterans but dont have much left in the tank. Orakpo is not playing DE so far so we needed to add young talent at the DE positon. Our front office graded Jarmon to be a possible 2nd round pick in 2010. Their is no way of knowing this for sure unless he played his senior season which would determine how well he played. So based on Jarmon's talent from his past 3 seasons at Kentucky we really wanted to land him. To ensure we got him we were willing to give up a 3rd pick from the 2010 draft. This worked now we have a young DE to groom this season instead of 2010. Who knows in 2010 he may have been projected to go in the 1st round if he had a monster senior year. Its all a gamble.