Obama Care

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by saden1

If we can get 85% of the currently uninsured I'll be satisfied though not fully. Now tell me why you believe that your quality of care is going to decrease and what percentage of decrease in your qualify care if any is acceptable to you?

Quality of care will decrease because:

1) Wait times for appointments will get much longer, wait times for procedures (like knee replacement) will get much much longer. The supply of physicians and facilities is not increasing, but demand for these services will. That inevitably results in a logjam.

2) Reimbursement to hospitals and physicians from commercial insurers (people who currently have insurance) will get phased downward over time to a more homogenous rate. Right now, physicians practice where the money is, in other words they locate their offices where most patients have good insurance. With so many previously uninsured patients gaining coverage, and with reimbursement homogenizing across payers, doctors will migrate to areas where most people are located. If you make a decent living and your neighborhood reflects that, then some of your physicians will be leaving the area. This will happen over time, not suddenly.

3) Over time, changes to the reimbursement structure will incent hospitals to treat minor issues as opposed to major, equipment-intensive illnesses. They will not have the same incentive to invest in state of the art technology. You'll have fewer choices when it comes to destinations to receive the state of the art care for the most serious of problems.

And many others.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Quality of care will decrease because:

1) Wait times for appointments will get much longer, wait times for procedures (like knee replacement) will get much much longer. The supply of physicians and facilities is not increasing, but demand for these services will. That inevitably results in a logjam.

2) Reimbursement to hospitals and physicians from commercial insurers (people who currently have insurance) will get phased downward over time to a more homogenous rate. Right now, physicians practice where the money is, in other words they locate their offices where most patients have good insurance. With so many previously uninsured patients gaining coverage, and with reimbursement homogenizing across payers, doctors will migrate to areas where most people are located. If you make a decent living and your neighborhood reflects that, then some of your physicians will be leaving the area. This will happen over time, not suddenly.

3) Over time, changes to the reimbursement structure will incent hospitals to treat minor issues as opposed to major, equipment-intensive illnesses. They will not have the same incentive to invest in state of the art technology. You'll have fewer choices when it comes to destinations to receive the state of the art care for the most serious of problems.

And many others.

Now we're getting somewhere. I get it, I really do get that the more people that use the system the more strain put on the system. But is the only solution to the problem not to bring more people into the system? There are many things we can do yet people here don't seem to want to bother.

I'd also point out that health service in general has been declining for years and that problem is only going to get worse unless he root cause of the problem, health service infrastructure at large, is address.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by saden1

Now we're getting somewhere. I get it, I really do get that the more people that use the system the more strain put on the system. But is the only solution to the problem not to bring more people into the system? There are many things we can do yet people here don't seem to want to bother.

I'd also point out that health service in general has been declining for years and that problem is only going to get worse unless he root cause of the problem, health service infrastructure at large, is address.

My health services I feel have become better over the past few years and my biggest complant is the cost of my insurance which I'm switching to a plain that better fits my needs. While people brushed off the Massachusetts problems with their health plan Obama himself said his plan is alot like what they have done. If you look at what they wanted to accomplish in Massachusetts and compared to what Obama says he wants do to it like a mirror image of each other. It seems people ignore that it has done the complete opposite of what their health Ins reform was intended to do. But why look at ugly numbers from a great example if it gets in your way.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by saden1

Now we're getting somewhere. I get it, I really do get that the more people that use the system the more strain put on the system. But is the only solution to the problem not to bring more people into the system? There are many things we can do yet people here don't seem to want to bother.

I'd also point out that health service in general has been declining for years and that problem is only going to get worse unless he root cause of the problem, health service infrastructure at large, is address.

And most everyone here has been debating just these issues and the role of government and private enterprise in resolving them for pages on end. Has anyone taken the consistent position that the current status of health is not an issue of public health to be addressed? Schneed10 has consistently said the current system is stressed to the breaking.

In response to these discussions and outside a handful of posts you have been dismissive those who assert a different point of view than yours or who believe the solution lies outside a simple transference of wealth (either direct or indirect) to "take more peope into the system". In response to attempts to define the issue and identify the root causes in competition you blantantly dismiss legitimate economic theory as magic. Further, throughout this thread and similar threads, you have brought the assertion of hypocrisy in american history, wishes for death of those who disagree with you, and a blatantly causal attitude to the concerns that it is our children who be bearing the costs of our current greed to the discussion.

NOW after 29 pages, innumberable discusssions of the points raised in the above post, you "get it". Perhaps if you had come off your high horse earlier, admitted that your belief system may just not be infallible and considered points of view that did not necessarily fall with your self-approved economic and philosophical theories, you could have brought your considerable talents to constructive solutions rather than an arrogant dismissal of real questions that need to be addressed.

It's not that "There are many things we can do yet people here don't seem to want to bother." It's that almost everything has a down side to it and, unless the discussion realizes and incorporates the underlying competing philosophies, it will not begin to cut the gordian knot that is the american health care system.

Come have some tea with me saden, I don't care if we use the kettle or the pot.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

And most everyone here has been debating just these issues and the role of government and private enterprise in resolving them for pages on end. Has anyone taken the consistent position that the current status of health is not an issue of public health to be addressed? Schneed10 has consistently said the current system is stressed to the breaking.

In response to these discussions and outside a handful of posts you have been dismissive those who assert a different point of view than yours or who believe the solution lies outside a simple transference of wealth (either direct or indirect) to "take more peope into the system". In response to attempts to define the issue and identify the root causes in competition you blantantly dismiss legitimate economic theory as magic. Further, throughout this thread and similar threads, you have brought the assertionof hypocrisy in american history, wishes for death of those who disagree with you, and a blatantly causal attitude to the concerns that it is our children who be bearing the costs of our current greed to the discussion.

I have opinions, some of which people aren't going to like. I am, however, concerned about your dismissive attitude with my "assertion" and misrepresentation of position. I'm also concerned with your lack of concern displayed by you lot when Bush was spending money from left to right and sending you a tax-cut check. I think you should hold off playing these cards.

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

NOW after 29 pages, innumberable discusssions of the points raised in the above post, you "get it". Perhaps if you had come off your high horse earlier, admitted that your belief system may just not be infallible and considered points of view that did not necessarily fall with your self-approved economic and philosophical theories, you could have brought your considerable talents to constructive solutions rather than an arrogant dismissal of real questions that need to be addressed.

It's not that "There are many things we can do yet people here don't seem to want to bother." It's that almost everything has a down side to it and, unless the discussion realizes and incorporates the underlying competing philosophies, it will not begin to cut the gordian knot that is the american health care system.

Come have some tea with me saden, I don't care if we use the kettle or the pot.

I've always gotten it Joe and I've always held the belief that there no game without some pain and intimated as much. Do me a favor though, lets not act like you and a lot of folks in here aren't playing polo and sipping on a drink of your fancy either.

I like mint flavored green tea.