Catching Up With Pete Kendall; Could He Be Back?

[Lotus]

We all (including me) seem to discount the idea that Heyer, in his third year, could "get it" and bust loose as a quite good RT.

I'm not saying this is true; I'm saying that it could be true and, if so, RT is no longer the worry that it has been.

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by Lotus

We all (including me) seem to discount the idea that Heyer, in his third year, could "get it" and bust loose as a quite good RT.

I'm not saying this is true; I'm saying that it could be true and, if so, RT is no longer the worry that it has been.

But then that brings us to two durability questions. Can Heyer last a full season at RT and if Samuels gets nicked, who plays RT if Heyer has to play LT?

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Pocket$ $traight

But then that brings us to two durability questions. Can Heyer last a full season at RT and if Samuels gets nicked, who plays RT if Heyer has to play LT?

Those are both good questions. My point was that many of us seem to think of the RT position as half-empty and we seem not to consider the half-full perspective as much.

As for Samuels, Buges talked the other day about Devin Clark filling in for Samuels, not Heyer like last year.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Lotus

We all (including me) seem to discount the idea that Heyer, in his third year, could "get it" and bust loose as a quite good RT.

I'm not saying this is true; I'm saying that it could be true and, if so, RT is no longer the worry that it has been.

It sure would be nice if he establishes himself as a starting quality RT this year.

He's shown flashes, he just needs to put it all together.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by Lotus

We all (including me) seem to discount the idea that Heyer, in his third year, could "get it" and bust loose as a quite good RT.

I'm not saying this is true; I'm saying that it could be true and, if so, RT is no longer the worry that it has been.

I really like this statement. Now lets substitute Cambell for Heyer in that statement, fivisth for third, QB for RT. Then the same statement again this time Devin Thomas for Heyer, WR for RT.......

All statements of if and hope. The topic of O-Line this offseason has been probably the most popular on the Warpath. Why? Because the second half of the last season, the most glaring weakness was O-Line and this was due to the age and health. During the offseason there was alot of anticipation from the greatest fans in the world to see exactly how the FO would tackle the problem. Lots of suggestions were made at every position except LT. Draft Mack at C, Oher at RT, sign a proven player, etc. There were players availible. We did get an upgrade with Dockery, but bigger questions are still left along our biggest weakness the second half of last season. The FO chose to look at defense to spend money which is great, but the true need was overlooked. Now I think the words we need to use are not "if" and "hope" at this point, but "better". Because the D-Lines of Philly, Dallas and NY have not gotten worse. And Heyer better be ready to start at RT and Reinhardt better be ready to step in for Randy Thomas when goes out at some point during the season. Our line when healthy is very solid, but this is the NFL, injuries are apart of it and depth is a neccesary. So Mike Williams better knock that rust off and Bridges better be ready to fight in the trenches like he fights at bars because if not, it is going to be a longgggg season. I have the faith, but it is time step up. "If" the O-line steps up and plays together, guys we are a surprise team this year, and could be looking at lengthy playoff run.

[70Chip]

In today's NFL, QBS are expected to perform no matter how the O-line plays. You're never going to see an O-Line do what the Hogs did in 1991. (9 total sacks, 6 through the first fifteen games when all the starters played, etc, blah blah) We need Campbell to perform in spite of the pressure. Look at how badly Arizona's line played in the SB and they came this close to winning because they have a QB who let's it fly fearlessly and receivers who make it pay off. Defensive coordinators are going to bring as many people as it takes to get pressure. You have a great O-Line? They'll just bring more people than you can block. Receiver is the position that beats pressure nowadays.

So, I'm not content to wait until we have 5 HOFers up front before we contend. Campbell needs to get the ball out more quickly and Vinny's 2nd rounders need to hit home runs. Im tired of making excuses for people. "Oh the offense can't score because the defense doesn't give them the ball at the one yard line." Bullshit.

My fear is that they want to shitcan Zorn (and Campbell naturally) after this season. I just hope they shitcan Vinny as well. He was back on the radio yesterday and boy does he still suck. Poor Frank Hanrahan. He must get migraines thinking about having to work with Cerrato for the next five months.

Wow. I feel better now.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

In today's NFL, QBS are expected to perform no matter how the O-line plays. You're never going to see an O-Line do what the Hogs did in 1991. (9 total sacks, 6 through the first fifteen games when all the starters played, etc, blah blah) We need Campbell to perform in spite of the pressure. Look at how badly Arizona's line played in the SB and they came this close to winning because they have a QB who let's it fly fearlessly and receivers who make it pay off. Defensive coordinators are going to bring as many people as it takes to get pressure. You have a great O-Line? They'll just bring more people than you can block. Receiver is the position that beats pressure nowadays.

So, I'm not content to wait until we have 5 HOFers up front before we contend. Campbell needs to get the ball out more quickly and Vinny's 2nd rounders need to hit home runs. Im tired of making excuses for people. "Oh the offense can't score because the defense doesn't give them the ball at the one yard line." Bullshit.

My fear is that they want to shitcan Zorn (and Campbell naturally) after this season. I just hope they shitcan Vinny as well. He was back on the radio yesterday and boy does he still suck. Poor Frank Hanrahan. He must get migraines thinking about having to work with Cerrato for the next five months.

Wow. I feel better now.

Unfortunately this is what people seem to expect. Apparently Rinehart was supposed to be Steve Hutchinson his first day of minicamp last year, and signing Bridges was supposed to be akin to signing Anthony Munoz.

[rypper11]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

In today's NFL, QBS are expected to perform no matter how the O-line plays. You're never going to see an O-Line do what the Hogs did in 1991. (9 total sacks, 6 through the first fifteen games when all the starters played, etc, blah blah) We need Campbell to perform in spite of the pressure. Look at how badly Arizona's line played in the SB and they came this close to winning because they have a QB who let's it fly fearlessly and receivers who make it pay off. Defensive coordinators are going to bring as many people as it takes to get pressure. You have a great O-Line? They'll just bring more people than you can block. Receiver is the position that beats pressure nowadays.

So, I'm not content to wait until we have 5 HOFers up front before we contend. Campbell needs to get the ball out more quickly and Vinny's 2nd rounders need to hit home runs. Im tired of making excuses for people. "Oh the offense can't score because the defense doesn't give them the ball at the one yard line." Bullshit.

Completely agree. I don't think we have a good line. But I'd say middle of the pack. Dock is an upgrade (though Kendall would be a great coach because he is such a great technician) and Heyer is an upgrade over Jansen in the passing game but a detriment in the running game. Expect lots of run left this year and JC holding the ball forever with max protect schemes.

[wolfeskins]

Originally Posted by rypper11

Completely agree. I don't think we have a good line. But I'd say middle of the pack. Dock is an upgrade (though Kendall would be a great coach because he is such a great technician) and Heyer is an upgrade over Jansen in the passing game but a detriment in the running game. Expect lots of run left this year and JC holding the ball forever with max protect schemes.

not so sure about that, this offense is predicated on quick reads and getting the ball out fast.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

In today's NFL, QBS are expected to perform no matter how the O-line plays. You're never going to see an O-Line do what the Hogs did in 1991. (9 total sacks, 6 through the first fifteen games when all the starters played, etc, blah blah) We need Campbell to perform in spite of the pressure. Look at how badly Arizona's line played in the SB and they came this close to winning because they have a QB who let's it fly fearlessly and receivers who make it pay off. Defensive coordinators are going to bring as many people as it takes to get pressure. You have a great O-Line? They'll just bring more people than you can block. Receiver is the position that beats pressure nowadays.

So, I'm not content to wait until we have 5 HOFers up front before we contend. Campbell needs to get the ball out more quickly and Vinny's 2nd rounders need to hit home runs. Im tired of making excuses for people. "Oh the offense can't score because the defense doesn't give them the ball at the one yard line." Bullshit.

My fear is that they want to shitcan Zorn (and Campbell naturally) after this season. I just hope they shitcan Vinny as well. He was back on the radio yesterday and boy does he still suck. Poor Frank Hanrahan. He must get migraines thinking about having to work with Cerrato for the next five months.

Wow. I feel better now.

Your argument pivots on Kurt Warner, probably the best "pressure" QB in the game today, working w/ the greatest WR in the game today and a 2nd WR easily in the top 5. In short...the argument doesn't hold water beyond the AZ Cards. Looking at top offenses you tend to see one resounding theme: a top notch offensive line. Brady has typically had one in NE. Peyton in Indy. Mini-Manning in NY has one of the best lines in the game and can be very good when he's on (such as he was at Fed Ex field last year). And finally, the most impressive QB in the game today IMHO, Drew Brees, has a very good (though maybe a bit underrated) line in front of him. I think anyone who watches the game play by play, seeing things develop, can easily recognize many of Zorn's plays fell apart before JC or any of his targets could be in a position to make something happen because the o-line crumbled. Zorn has basically said so himself.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Your argument pivots on Kurt Warner, probably the best "pressure" QB in the game today, working w/ the greatest WR in the game today and a 2nd WR easily in the top 5. In short...the argument doesn't hold water beyond the AZ Cards. Looking at top offenses you tend to see one resounding theme: a top notch offensive line. Brady has typically had one in NE. Peyton in Indy. Mini-Manning in NY has one of the best lines in the game and can be very good when he's on (such as he was at Fed Ex field last year). And finally, the most impressive QB in the game today IMHO, Drew Brees, has a very good (though maybe a bit underrated) line in front of him. I think anyone who watches the game play by play, seeing things develop, can easily recognize many of Zorn's plays fell apart before JC or any of his targets could be in a position to make something happen because the o-line crumbled. Zorn has basically said so himself.

The Steelers offensive line wasn't exactly knocking on Canton's door last year either

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

The Steelers offensive line wasn't exactly knocking on Canton's door last year either

Yeah but the defense was off the charts. Big Ben finds a way to get an extra second or second and a half when he needed it and they were still able to run enough.

[Skinny Tee]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

The Steelers offensive line wasn't exactly knocking on Canton's door last year either

They gave Big Ben enough time to pull off a glorious come from behind Super Bowl win in the final minutes of the game.

Also their defense is capable of scoring on every defensive play. There are many reasons that they were better than us on both sides of the ball last year. That's not a fair comparison.

If your team's defense can almost score more than its offense then by all means go into the NFL season without quality O linemen. I don't think our defense grants us that luxury though.

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Your argument pivots on Kurt Warner, probably the best "pressure" QB in the game today, working w/ the greatest WR in the game today and a 2nd WR easily in the top 5. In short...the argument doesn't hold water beyond the AZ Cards. Looking at top offenses you tend to see one resounding theme: a top notch offensive line. Brady has typically had one in NE. Peyton in Indy. Mini-Manning in NY has one of the best lines in the game and can be very good when he's on (such as he was at Fed Ex field last year). And finally, the most impressive QB in the game today IMHO, Drew Brees, has a very good (though maybe a bit underrated) line in front of him. I think anyone who watches the game play by play, seeing things develop, can easily recognize many of Zorn's plays fell apart before JC or any of his targets could be in a position to make something happen because the o-line crumbled. Zorn has basically said so himself.

My point is that becuse our offensive line was so dominant in the 1980s, fans (of a certain age I suppose) think the only path to success is to have an offensive line that pitches shutouts. It's an unrealistic expectation. The QB has to pick his teammates up. The Cardinals are one example. I think Roethlisberger does a nice job of buying time. Ditto Romo, though he lacks consistency. It's the only thing McNabb does really well, IMO. As for the Pats, their offensive line is good but you can't tell me that Brady and the receivers aren't the straaw that really stirs that drink.

As for Zorn, his devotion to the outmoded WCO will be his downfall. Campbell can't run it the way Hasselback did and if he wants to survive he needs to get over the notion that you can run the Redskins offense exactly like they did in Seattle.

On the bright side, our defense may be good enough to carry us while they figure out how to score more than ten points.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

My point is that becuse our offensive line was so dominant in the 1980s, fans (of a certain age I suppose) think the only path to success is to have an offensive line that pitches shutouts. It's an unrealistic expectation. The QB has to pick his teammates up. The Cardinals are one example. I think Roethlisberger does a nice job of buying time. Ditto Romo, though he lacks consistency. It's the only thing McNabb does really well, IMO. As for the Pats, their offensive line is good but you can't tell me that Brady and the receivers aren't the straaw that really stirs that drink.

As for Zorn, his devotion to the outmoded WCO will be his downfall. Campbell can't run it the way Hasselback did and if he wants to survive he needs to get over the notion that you can run the Redskins offense exactly like they did in Seattle.

On the bright side, our defense may be good enough to carry us while they figure out how to score more than ten points.

Well, the point is that no team last year started a line as poor as this:

lt-heyer, lg-kendall, c-rabach, rg-thomas, rt-fabini

You can't win in the NFL with that. But, if you start with this:

lt-samuels, lg-dockery, c-rabach, rg-thomas, rt-heyer

Then you still have to be able to win with this:

lt-samuels, lg-rinehart, c-rabach, rg-bridges, rt-heyer

Everything is relative. Last year the Giants started the same five lineman for 16 games each. The Redskins, on the other hand, lost 9 games due to injury on the OL. That's really not a lot, but the effect was exaggerated by three things: 1) all 9 games were lost at the same postion (OT), 2) when Heyer returned from injury the team opted not to place him back in the starting lineup which makes the practical games lost more like 13 or 14, and 3) the Redskins don't employ a replacement level left tackle other than Samuels, and to this day, still do not.

Currently, the Redskins have only two guys on the roster who can handle the tackle position for an extended length of time, so more injuries at that position would be devistating. I think they can deal with another 9 adjusted games lost if they get 16 start seasons from Heyer and Samuels. But that's not necessarily in their control.