Catching Up With Pete Kendall; Could He Be Back?

[70Chip]

In today's NFL, QBS are expected to perform no matter how the O-line plays. You're never going to see an O-Line do what the Hogs did in 1991. (9 total sacks, 6 through the first fifteen games when all the starters played, etc, blah blah) We need Campbell to perform in spite of the pressure. Look at how badly Arizona's line played in the SB and they came this close to winning because they have a QB who let's it fly fearlessly and receivers who make it pay off. Defensive coordinators are going to bring as many people as it takes to get pressure. You have a great O-Line? They'll just bring more people than you can block. Receiver is the position that beats pressure nowadays.

So, I'm not content to wait until we have 5 HOFers up front before we contend. Campbell needs to get the ball out more quickly and Vinny's 2nd rounders need to hit home runs. Im tired of making excuses for people. "Oh the offense can't score because the defense doesn't give them the ball at the one yard line." Bullshit.

My fear is that they want to shitcan Zorn (and Campbell naturally) after this season. I just hope they shitcan Vinny as well. He was back on the radio yesterday and boy does he still suck. Poor Frank Hanrahan. He must get migraines thinking about having to work with Cerrato for the next five months.

Wow. I feel better now.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

In today's NFL, QBS are expected to perform no matter how the O-line plays. You're never going to see an O-Line do what the Hogs did in 1991. (9 total sacks, 6 through the first fifteen games when all the starters played, etc, blah blah) We need Campbell to perform in spite of the pressure. Look at how badly Arizona's line played in the SB and they came this close to winning because they have a QB who let's it fly fearlessly and receivers who make it pay off. Defensive coordinators are going to bring as many people as it takes to get pressure. You have a great O-Line? They'll just bring more people than you can block. Receiver is the position that beats pressure nowadays.

So, I'm not content to wait until we have 5 HOFers up front before we contend. Campbell needs to get the ball out more quickly and Vinny's 2nd rounders need to hit home runs. Im tired of making excuses for people. "Oh the offense can't score because the defense doesn't give them the ball at the one yard line." Bullshit.

My fear is that they want to shitcan Zorn (and Campbell naturally) after this season. I just hope they shitcan Vinny as well. He was back on the radio yesterday and boy does he still suck. Poor Frank Hanrahan. He must get migraines thinking about having to work with Cerrato for the next five months.

Wow. I feel better now.

Unfortunately this is what people seem to expect. Apparently Rinehart was supposed to be Steve Hutchinson his first day of minicamp last year, and signing Bridges was supposed to be akin to signing Anthony Munoz.

[rypper11]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

In today's NFL, QBS are expected to perform no matter how the O-line plays. You're never going to see an O-Line do what the Hogs did in 1991. (9 total sacks, 6 through the first fifteen games when all the starters played, etc, blah blah) We need Campbell to perform in spite of the pressure. Look at how badly Arizona's line played in the SB and they came this close to winning because they have a QB who let's it fly fearlessly and receivers who make it pay off. Defensive coordinators are going to bring as many people as it takes to get pressure. You have a great O-Line? They'll just bring more people than you can block. Receiver is the position that beats pressure nowadays.

So, I'm not content to wait until we have 5 HOFers up front before we contend. Campbell needs to get the ball out more quickly and Vinny's 2nd rounders need to hit home runs. Im tired of making excuses for people. "Oh the offense can't score because the defense doesn't give them the ball at the one yard line." Bullshit.

Completely agree. I don't think we have a good line. But I'd say middle of the pack. Dock is an upgrade (though Kendall would be a great coach because he is such a great technician) and Heyer is an upgrade over Jansen in the passing game but a detriment in the running game. Expect lots of run left this year and JC holding the ball forever with max protect schemes.

[wolfeskins]

Originally Posted by rypper11

Completely agree. I don't think we have a good line. But I'd say middle of the pack. Dock is an upgrade (though Kendall would be a great coach because he is such a great technician) and Heyer is an upgrade over Jansen in the passing game but a detriment in the running game. Expect lots of run left this year and JC holding the ball forever with max protect schemes.

not so sure about that, this offense is predicated on quick reads and getting the ball out fast.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

In today's NFL, QBS are expected to perform no matter how the O-line plays. You're never going to see an O-Line do what the Hogs did in 1991. (9 total sacks, 6 through the first fifteen games when all the starters played, etc, blah blah) We need Campbell to perform in spite of the pressure. Look at how badly Arizona's line played in the SB and they came this close to winning because they have a QB who let's it fly fearlessly and receivers who make it pay off. Defensive coordinators are going to bring as many people as it takes to get pressure. You have a great O-Line? They'll just bring more people than you can block. Receiver is the position that beats pressure nowadays.

So, I'm not content to wait until we have 5 HOFers up front before we contend. Campbell needs to get the ball out more quickly and Vinny's 2nd rounders need to hit home runs. Im tired of making excuses for people. "Oh the offense can't score because the defense doesn't give them the ball at the one yard line." Bullshit.

My fear is that they want to shitcan Zorn (and Campbell naturally) after this season. I just hope they shitcan Vinny as well. He was back on the radio yesterday and boy does he still suck. Poor Frank Hanrahan. He must get migraines thinking about having to work with Cerrato for the next five months.

Wow. I feel better now.

Your argument pivots on Kurt Warner, probably the best "pressure" QB in the game today, working w/ the greatest WR in the game today and a 2nd WR easily in the top 5. In short...the argument doesn't hold water beyond the AZ Cards. Looking at top offenses you tend to see one resounding theme: a top notch offensive line. Brady has typically had one in NE. Peyton in Indy. Mini-Manning in NY has one of the best lines in the game and can be very good when he's on (such as he was at Fed Ex field last year). And finally, the most impressive QB in the game today IMHO, Drew Brees, has a very good (though maybe a bit underrated) line in front of him. I think anyone who watches the game play by play, seeing things develop, can easily recognize many of Zorn's plays fell apart before JC or any of his targets could be in a position to make something happen because the o-line crumbled. Zorn has basically said so himself.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Your argument pivots on Kurt Warner, probably the best "pressure" QB in the game today, working w/ the greatest WR in the game today and a 2nd WR easily in the top 5. In short...the argument doesn't hold water beyond the AZ Cards. Looking at top offenses you tend to see one resounding theme: a top notch offensive line. Brady has typically had one in NE. Peyton in Indy. Mini-Manning in NY has one of the best lines in the game and can be very good when he's on (such as he was at Fed Ex field last year). And finally, the most impressive QB in the game today IMHO, Drew Brees, has a very good (though maybe a bit underrated) line in front of him. I think anyone who watches the game play by play, seeing things develop, can easily recognize many of Zorn's plays fell apart before JC or any of his targets could be in a position to make something happen because the o-line crumbled. Zorn has basically said so himself.

The Steelers offensive line wasn't exactly knocking on Canton's door last year either

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

The Steelers offensive line wasn't exactly knocking on Canton's door last year either

Yeah but the defense was off the charts. Big Ben finds a way to get an extra second or second and a half when he needed it and they were still able to run enough.

[Skinny Tee]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

The Steelers offensive line wasn't exactly knocking on Canton's door last year either

They gave Big Ben enough time to pull off a glorious come from behind Super Bowl win in the final minutes of the game.

Also their defense is capable of scoring on every defensive play. There are many reasons that they were better than us on both sides of the ball last year. That's not a fair comparison.

If your team's defense can almost score more than its offense then by all means go into the NFL season without quality O linemen. I don't think our defense grants us that luxury though.

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Your argument pivots on Kurt Warner, probably the best "pressure" QB in the game today, working w/ the greatest WR in the game today and a 2nd WR easily in the top 5. In short...the argument doesn't hold water beyond the AZ Cards. Looking at top offenses you tend to see one resounding theme: a top notch offensive line. Brady has typically had one in NE. Peyton in Indy. Mini-Manning in NY has one of the best lines in the game and can be very good when he's on (such as he was at Fed Ex field last year). And finally, the most impressive QB in the game today IMHO, Drew Brees, has a very good (though maybe a bit underrated) line in front of him. I think anyone who watches the game play by play, seeing things develop, can easily recognize many of Zorn's plays fell apart before JC or any of his targets could be in a position to make something happen because the o-line crumbled. Zorn has basically said so himself.

My point is that becuse our offensive line was so dominant in the 1980s, fans (of a certain age I suppose) think the only path to success is to have an offensive line that pitches shutouts. It's an unrealistic expectation. The QB has to pick his teammates up. The Cardinals are one example. I think Roethlisberger does a nice job of buying time. Ditto Romo, though he lacks consistency. It's the only thing McNabb does really well, IMO. As for the Pats, their offensive line is good but you can't tell me that Brady and the receivers aren't the straaw that really stirs that drink.

As for Zorn, his devotion to the outmoded WCO will be his downfall. Campbell can't run it the way Hasselback did and if he wants to survive he needs to get over the notion that you can run the Redskins offense exactly like they did in Seattle.

On the bright side, our defense may be good enough to carry us while they figure out how to score more than ten points.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

My point is that becuse our offensive line was so dominant in the 1980s, fans (of a certain age I suppose) think the only path to success is to have an offensive line that pitches shutouts. It's an unrealistic expectation. The QB has to pick his teammates up. The Cardinals are one example. I think Roethlisberger does a nice job of buying time. Ditto Romo, though he lacks consistency. It's the only thing McNabb does really well, IMO. As for the Pats, their offensive line is good but you can't tell me that Brady and the receivers aren't the straaw that really stirs that drink.

As for Zorn, his devotion to the outmoded WCO will be his downfall. Campbell can't run it the way Hasselback did and if he wants to survive he needs to get over the notion that you can run the Redskins offense exactly like they did in Seattle.

On the bright side, our defense may be good enough to carry us while they figure out how to score more than ten points.

Well, the point is that no team last year started a line as poor as this:

lt-heyer, lg-kendall, c-rabach, rg-thomas, rt-fabini

You can't win in the NFL with that. But, if you start with this:

lt-samuels, lg-dockery, c-rabach, rg-thomas, rt-heyer

Then you still have to be able to win with this:

lt-samuels, lg-rinehart, c-rabach, rg-bridges, rt-heyer

Everything is relative. Last year the Giants started the same five lineman for 16 games each. The Redskins, on the other hand, lost 9 games due to injury on the OL. That's really not a lot, but the effect was exaggerated by three things: 1) all 9 games were lost at the same postion (OT), 2) when Heyer returned from injury the team opted not to place him back in the starting lineup which makes the practical games lost more like 13 or 14, and 3) the Redskins don't employ a replacement level left tackle other than Samuels, and to this day, still do not.

Currently, the Redskins have only two guys on the roster who can handle the tackle position for an extended length of time, so more injuries at that position would be devistating. I think they can deal with another 9 adjusted games lost if they get 16 start seasons from Heyer and Samuels. But that's not necessarily in their control.

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Well, the point is that no team last year started a line as poor as this:

lt-heyer, lg-kendall, c-rabach, rg-thomas, rt-fabini

I think you give some of these other offensive lines too much credit. However, if you're saying that Cerratto hasn't done his job and should be fired then I agree completely with that.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

I think you give some of these other offensive lines too much credit. However, if you're saying that Cerratto hasn't done his job and should be fired then I agree completely with that.

Cerrato's biggest failure last year was the Jason Taylor trade without conferring with his defensive coordinator, whom he himself promoted, to see how Jason Taylor would fit.

The Devin Thomas selection was a close second.

Maybe we should lock his ability to touch his second round draft picks. Seems like with moves not involving a second rounder, he's done a pretty good job.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Cerrato's biggest failure last year was the Jason Taylor trade without conferring with his defensive coordinator, whom he himself promoted, to see how Jason Taylor would fit.

The Devin Thomas selection was a close second.

Maybe we should lock his ability to touch his second round draft picks. Seems like with moves not involving a second rounder, he's done a pretty good job.

I just don't get this. Devin has has evidently worked his tail off all year long and spent a ton of time w/ his QB developing chemistry/timing. He's a bit injury prone as it appears...however before we throw him into the pile of "wasted picks" lets see what the kid does over say the first 4 or 5 games this year.

...personally I xpect him to be a difference maker on offense this year.

[Vinny's Dealer]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Maybe we should lock his ability to touch his second round draft picks. Seems like with moves not involving a second rounder, he's done a pretty good job.

Whatever. Vin has the authority to touch his second round draft picks wherever he wants to.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

I think you give some of these other offensive lines too much credit. However, if you're saying that Cerratto hasn't done his job and should be fired then I agree completely with that.

Well we can test this. Starting with the assumption that the above Redskins line only had one player who could handle his position (assuming the Thomas injury disqualifies him from that designation).

The Bengals started this:

lt-anthony collins, lg-nate livings, c-eric ghiaciuc, rg-bobbie williams, rt-dennis roland

which is probably just as bad as our line above, but they only had that group for one start (compared to two starts for us).

The Seahaws had this:

lt-ray willis, lg-floyd womack, c-steve vallos, rg-mansfield wrotto, rt-kyle williams

which is also pretty bad, considering it's entirely backups. Wrotto is a Rinehart type, Willis = Heyer, and Kyle Williams was a UDFA. But Womack and Vallos are pretty good as far as backup lineman go.

Finally, when the Bills were at their worst, here's who they had to start:

lt-kirk chambers, lg-derrick dockery, c-melvin fowler, rg-jason whittle, rt-langston walker

I guess all of these lines were destined to fail, but I don't believe that just because a bunch of other bad teams had similar problems doesn't mean that we should pass the blame around.