Potential Epic Fail

[mooby]

I know I'm not the only one that doesn't want Cowher to come in here next year. He'd run Clinton Portis into retirement and try and switch our d-personnel to a 3-4, aka pretty much the exact opposite type of linebackers and d-lineman that we have except for Haynesworth. I don't want a guy who won one Super Bowl after like 15 years with one franchise. And you know Snyder would still have Cerrato making all the decisions. Disaster in the making if you ask me.

But if we lose to the Lions JZ will be as good as gone. It's like I keep hearing, if you're gonna go out, go out firing, don't leave your bullets in the clip. But what makes people believe that JZ is willing to place all his trust in Campbell in the red zone all of a sudden? Unless he had some massive change of heart and decided it's time to let Campbell open it up I don't think we'll see innovative changes in the red zone next week. Mitchell can't even get on the field in the game, what makes people think all of a sudden JZ is gonna start inserting him and Kelly into all (probably 1 or 2 what with the heavy running to the left side) our red zone pass plays? I mean we'd all love to see a 3 wr set with Mitchell, Kelly, and Cooley down in the red zone but I just don't think it's gonna happen. I think Zorn is gonna keep trying to run Portis into the end zone until either he snaps or the team snaps. For me, the fact of the thing is that Zorn doesn't trust the offense to throw the ball into the endzone when we're down there. And that distrust ain't gonna disappear just like that.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by mooby

I know I'm not the only one that doesn't want Cowher to come in here next year. He'd run Clinton Portis into retirement and try and switch our d-personnel to a 3-4, aka pretty much the exact opposite type of linebackers and d-lineman that we have except for Haynesworth. I don't want a guy who won one Super Bowl after like 15 years with one franchise. And you know Snyder would still have Cerrato making all the decisions. Disaster in the making if you ask me.

A few thoughts on this

- A big reason why Cowher ran the 3-4 defense in Pittsburgh is because he entrusted the defense when he started to Dick Lebeau (and to a lesser extent Dom Capers) a huge proponent of the 3-4. But Cowher has said that he's not married to the 3-4 defense and wouldn't use it if the talent was there for a 4-3

- One of the "knocks" against Cowher has been that he really didn't do anything as an X and Os guy on game day, that he left the offense up to Bruce Arians/Whisenhunt etc. and the defense to Lebeau and whoever else was the DC. To that end, I would suspect that if he became the head coach his role would be more of a Joe Gibbs than a Jim Zorn

- Are you saying you don't want to wait 15 years for a Super Bowl? Because really Cowher's record during that 15 year span is pretty solid.

- Why is it a problem for VC to continue to make personnel decisions? Is that just the popular thing to say? Talent wise, I think he's putting a pretty solid team together. Of course, there are still some question marks. But really those can't be answered until they get opportunities. So, of course, the issue is whose fault is it they are not getting the opportunities. You can, however, make the argument that if Zorn isn't capable of succeeding and is fired then Cerrato should go with him. Because if Cerrato who told Snyder that Zorn was the guy (and not Fassel, for example) and that Snyder should put his faith in Zorn.

if it comes down to Shananan or Cowher (the popular choics), I can think of good reasons for both and neither.

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

A few thoughts on this

- A big reason why Cowher ran the 3-4 defense in Pittsburgh is because he entrusted the defense when he started to Dick Lebeau (and to a lesser extent Dom Capers) a huge proponent of the 3-4. But Cowher has said that he's not married to the 3-4 defense and wouldn't use it if the talent was there for a 4-3

- One of the "knocks" against Cowher has been that he really didn't do anything as an X and Os guy on game day, that he left the offense up to Bruce Arians/Whisenhunt etc. and the defense to Lebeau and whoever else was the DC. To that end, I would suspect that if he became the head coach his role would be more of a Joe Gibbs than a Jim Zorn

- Are you saying you don't want to wait 15 years for a Super Bowl? Because really Cowher's record during that 15 year span is pretty solid.

- Why is it a problem for VC to continue to make personnel decisions? Is that just the popular thing to say? Talent wise, I think he's putting a pretty solid team together. Of course, there are still some question marks. But really those can't be answered until they get opportunities. So, of course, the issue is whose fault is it they are not getting the opportunities. You can, however, make the argument that if Zorn isn't capable of succeeding and is fired then Cerrato should go with him. Because if Cerrato who told Snyder that Zorn was the guy (and not Fassel, for example) and that Snyder should put his faith in Zorn.
if it comes down to Shananan or Cowher (the popular choics), I can think of good reasons for both and neither.

Vinnie takes a lot of flack from people who don't really understand his job, sure, but at some point don't you have to win something? I mean, it's a bottom line league. 　He's put a team together that is clearly talented in ways but lacks depth and balance in others. As this season progresses, if none of the 08 second rounders step up, if the offensive line continues to whither, if Deangelo Hall continues to look like a 60 million dollar liability, and if the team continues to swim around the 500 mark, how can one continue to defend the guy? I mean, we've been on the three year plan for almost 10 years now. Maybe it's not completely fair but who else in football gets to underperform and keep their job in perpetuity?

[Skinny Tee]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

Vinnie takes a lot of flack from people who don't really understand his job, sure, but at some point don't you have to win something? I mean, it's a bottom line league. 　He's put a team together that is clearly talented in ways but lacks depth and balance in others. As this season progresses, if none of the 08 second rounders step up, if the offensive line continues to whither, if Deangelo Hall continues to look like a 60 million dollar liability, and if the team continues to swim around the 500 mark, how can one continue to defend the guy? I mean, we've been on the three year plan for almost 10 years now. Maybe it's not completely fair but who else in football gets to underperform and keep their job in perpetuity?

Someone who is getting paid to act as GM on behalf of the owner.

With Vinny here I just can't believe that Snyder doesn't have his hand on the roster.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

Vinnie takes a lot of flack from people who don't really understand his job, sure, but at some point don't you have to win something? I mean, it's a bottom line league. 　He's put a team together that is clearly talented in ways but lacks depth and balance in others. As this season progresses, if none of the 08 second rounders step up, if the offensive line continues to whither, if Deangelo Hall continues to look like a 60 million dollar liability, and if the team continues to swim around the 500 mark, how can one continue to defend the guy? I mean, we've been on the three year plan for almost 10 years now. Maybe it's not completely fair but who else in football gets to underperform and keep their job in perpetuity?

Fair points. The reality is only recently has Vinny been given final authority that he didn't have when Spurrier, Schottenheimer, and Gibbs were here. There have been some very questionable moves that I would confidently say would not have been made had Vinny had the final say. The role of the "General Manager" "VP of Player Personnel" whatever you want to call it is somewhat nebulous. I mean, on the one hand kudos to Vinny for selecting Marko Mitchell in the 7th round but it really could be argued that's more a testament to good scouting (but then again kudos to Vinny for putting the scouting team together)

I have stated before, and continue to believe, that within the next couple of years Cerrato's responsibilities will shift to more the business side of the team than the football operations. And I think that's the right call. I think he's done a good, not great job.

My concern is that I don't know what the better alternative is. I think any of the four most mentioned candidates are going to want full control. But Holmgren already showed once he couldn't handle both jobs and was relieved of the responsibility, Shanahan should have been, Gruden and Allen clashed a lot in Tampa. Cowher is really the only one who hasn't been tested yet in that dual role. I'm sure a lot of fans though would simply rest easier if Cerrato isn't there. Not based on any actual reason, just because they don't want him around.