Campbell's numbers dont lie

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Perfect example is on his first photo where it looks like Campbell overlooked a wide open man on the sideline to throw into double coverage down the middle, it was a busted play (pressure from the backside caused him to step up, then pressure was coming from the right) and at the time of the throw there was no angle to make that throw based on JC's body position and the 3 defenders in the area. I am watching the Short Cut right now and this is a clear indication of the video telling a story that the facts don't back up.

Perfect example. Nice work.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Perfect example is on his first photo where it looks like Campbell overlooked a wide open man on the sideline to throw into double coverage down the middle, it was a busted play (pressure from the backside caused him to step up, then pressure was coming from the right) and at the time of the throw there was no angle to make that throw based on JC's body position and the 3 defenders in the area. I am watching the Short Cut right now and this is a clear indication of the video telling a story that the facts don't back up.

Just got to this play. You're exactly right. Devin DID clear all the linebackers and came open. Had Campbell taken the time to set his feet, maybe he would have seen him in behind the coverage. But the play was pretty much set up to go to Kelly with Devin as the third read, and I'm not shocked that Campbell never saw him. The progression definately broke down when Samuels got beat.

For one thing, he wasn't supposed to be open (and it would never have looked differently until he actually did). Detroit's SLB simply blew the coverage and turned him loose to no one.

For another thing, this isn't a play Jason typically misses. He missed this one, but still frames don't really do him justice.

[dmvskinzfan08]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Yeah I dunno, I've seen that thread too and it's awfully easy to take some screen caps and say hey, that guy is open, or this guy is. What the pics don't tell you is who was open when JC made the decision to throw, what the pressure on him was like, where he was in his progression, etc.

I've seen the thread too and shook my head. You can point out 3-4 bad plays. But take notice he is not showing the complete picture. As far as if Jason was being pressured and other factors. To pick out a few plays seems very suspect to say the most. I am sure people could do the same thing for Brett Favre but does than mean he is a bad QB? JC may have made some bad plays. But I think you probably could do the sme thing with most QBs in the NFL if you want to be selectively picking out bad plays or plays that can be made to look like bad plays. If he showed everything from JC to the receivers in one complete picture it would have had a greater impact. But still as I said this is only 3 or 4 plays. No QB makes perfect decisions 100% of the time.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

One bloggers interesting take:

The failure of Jason Campbell in pictures (Lions game) - EXTREMESKINS.com

And if you select 2-3 plays from any NFL QB's game you will see open receivers, missed reads and points left on the field. Not to call the poster a cherry picker, but he had an overall point he wanted to make and found some isolated video to support him. Also, without seeing the coaches tape it's impossible to accurately assess plays. From a TV camera angle you can't see what's happening in the pocket at the same time as seeing down the field accurately.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

And if you select 2-3 plays from any NFL QB's game you will see open receivers, missed reads and points left on the field. Not to call the poster a cherry picker, but he had an overall point he wanted to make and found some isolated video to support him. Also, without seeing the coaches tape it's impossible to accurately assess plays. From a TV camera angle you can't see what's happening in the pocket at the same time as seeing down the field accurately.

I agree with you and Matty. I'm not trying to say "Look I can prove JC sucks." I just know there has been comments for and against. This was a blog with pictures. I'll agree that it's hard to take 3-4 seperate plays and call him a bust, I'm not doing that. Teams are not going to show us their coach's film which I'm sure we all would love to see in order to make a fair judgement. But even if he did miss a WR down field open we are possibly left with out the finer details of what Zorn wants him to do or where to go with the ball and even if JC was able to see the whole field due to the battling on the lines in front of him.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

One bloggers interesting take:

The failure of Jason Campbell in pictures (Lions game) - EXTREMESKINS.com

The ones where Jason is forcing the ball deep, he's glaringly missing open receivers.

The other one's, he's using still frames to suggest that receivers will be open, but you can really do that. You need to have moving video to see how the play progresses. No matter how good you are with MS paint and red circles.

Clearly there's something to be learned from that, and it's perhaps that Campbell is being too aggressive. If it isn't there, it isn't there.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

The ones where Jason is forcing the ball deep, he's glaringly missing open receivers.

The other one's, he's using still frames to suggest that receivers will be open, but you can really do that. You need to have moving video to see how the play progresses. No matter how good you are with MS paint and red circles.

Clearly there's something to be learned from that, and it's perhaps that Campbell is being too aggressive. If it isn't there, it isn't there.

Which would be ironic since most complainers call him too conservative and too much of a dink/dunk checkdown guy.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Which would be ironic since most complainers call him too conservative and too much of a dink/dunk checkdown guy.

Yeah I mean how many times have we screamed for him to take some chances even to draw a PI?

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Which would be ironic since most complainers call him too conservative and too much of a dink/dunk checkdown guy.

He said in the offseason that they'd been working on some of those deep throws into coverage. Each time w/one exception when he's gone mid to deep to Kelly, he's just not open. Even double covered.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

The ones where Jason is forcing the ball deep, he's glaringly missing open receivers.

The other one's, he's using still frames to suggest that receivers will be open, but you can really do that. You need to have moving video to see how the play progresses. No matter how good you are with MS paint and red circles.

Clearly there's something to be learned from that, and it's perhaps that Campbell is being too aggressive. If it isn't there, it isn't there.

But how many posters have said you need to take the shot and maybe you get a PI off it, or if he had dumped it off, they would have screamed that his completion percentage is high because he dumped it off. Sometimes, a lot of times, JC is in a no win situation with his critics.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

But how many posters have said you need to take the shot and maybe you get a PI off it, or if he had dumped it off, they would have screamed that his completion percentage is high because he dumped it off. Sometimes, a lot of times, JC is in a no win situation with his critics.

Well, exactly.

I'm through every offensive play in the first half now (review comes tonight. Expect the offense prior to 9 pm) and every mistake Jason has made in this half is of the "pass was never, ever there" variety.

One sort of exception to the rule was the Anthony Henry near pick-six, which was because the Lions disguised their cover two coverage well, and Campbell just had no idea that Henry would do anything except follow Devin Thomas up the field. It's completely on Campbell, but then again, when you go up against Blache schemes in practice every day, you don't see that ever.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

But how many posters have said you need to take the shot and maybe you get a PI off it, or if he had dumped it off, they would have screamed that his completion percentage is high because he dumped it off. Sometimes, a lot of times, JC is in a no win situation with his critics.

I think it's hard to blame JC for everything and say he's the whole problem when none of us have all the facts on every play of every down during any of the games. None of us know if Zorn is not giving him specific instructions as to what to do with the ball, or is he given leeway as to what he can do. I truly wonder if Zorn is trying to micro manage? I don't know. Could it be Zorn's scheme? We keep hearing how on some plays JC can change the play, and some plays they do not have a secondary play to change into which forces JC to run the play given even though he knows the play most likely won't work.

I know I have been negative about JC in the past, but my negativity is not a complete JC must go he sucks attitude cause I'm not privy to the issues I stated above. Kinda hard to blame the QB when his play caller sends in crappy plays, O-line breaks down, or WR's can't get seperation.

I just know I see other teams spreading out the opponents defense better, passes look too easy, WR's get seperation sometimes with 10 yrds or more, WR's on other teams coming back to the ball or making a play on a jump ball in double coverage and it appears our WR's are waiting for the ball to come to them (obviously not JC's fault).

I wonder if the plays that are working between the 20's are basically due to defenses having so much field to cover, but when we get down inside the 20's whatever plays were working between the 20's don't cause there's less room to work with. Zorn's duty is to find a way to spread the defense out better inside the 20's and he's not doing that.

[dgack]

Just for shits and giggles, I just spent 15 minutes googling and found threads on Bucs, Bills, Raiders, Browns, Rams, and Panthers forums discussing the possibility of getting Campbell next year. Unsurprisingly, most of the people in the discussion think Soup is a solid if unspectacular QB who works his ass off, isn't a diva, and doesn't make a ton of mistakes.

Perhaps more importantly, they almost all believe he's a steal who is undervalued because of where he plays and the constant chaos here.

[dmvskinzfan08]

Originally Posted by dgack

Just for shits and giggles, I just spent 15 minutes googling and found threads on Bucs, Bills, Raiders, Browns, Rams, and Panthers forums discussing the possibility of getting Campbell next year. Unsurprisingly, most of the people in the discussion think Soup is a solid if unspectacular QB who works his ass off, isn't a diva, and doesn't make a ton of mistakes.

Perhaps more importantly, they almost all believe he's a steal who is undervalued because of where he plays and the constant chaos here.

I pointed it out in a earlier post. What team in the NFL is harder on their QB than we are? Pressure is pressure. But imagine having a whole team on your shoulders and hardly getting support from your fans. Even when you are improving game by game. I see JC putting up big numbers and a couple of TDs the next game. But I will guarantee someone will find something negative. Someone said JC wouldn't be the starter for another team if we let him go. I find that hard to believe because he is better than the bottom half of Qbs in this league and isn't a diva like Cutler and is coachable and has been very level headed and has worked his ass off. But that means nothing to some people.

[SmootSmack]

I wouldn't be shocked to see Campbell starting in Arizona next year (assuming he's not starting here and KW has retired).

And if Mike Shanahan is our head coach I can almost guarantee you we will talk to the Cardinals about Matt Leinart. Shanahan really likes Leinart.

(If Gruden is the coach it's a more remote possibility)