Campbell's numbers dont lie

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

But Ruh and DMV will just shout down rationale posts based upon actually watching the games and thinking about what determines good NFL quarterback play and just call it "hating." Far from it though. I am addressing the reality that has shown itself on the field in every game this season. It was as evident in Detroit as it was against Tampa, the difference was in the statistical outcome, but the same deficiencies were present.

So what do you want us to do right now? Give me a solution for the team that would fix our offensive problems. If you take out Campbell and insert Collins, do you think things would be different? Just give me a reasonable solution, and not just announce that you have given up on the team.

Well, at least you are not this guy...

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

Sorry, I was a true fan up until we lost to the lonely 0-19 Detroit Lions, and we became the laughing stock of the NFL, Do you all watch any of the pregame shows? They all had awful things to say about us. Then we struggle to get a win against the 0-3 Bucs, and struggle to get a win against the now 0-4 Rams, lets see we got the 0-4 chiefs and 0-4 panthers? How we gonna do? Ever since we lost to the lions I said now with confidence "We are not going to make the Playoffs." Thats what I would consider a good season, is making the playoffs, and I don't see us making the playoffs. No way, If we lose to the lonely detroit lions, no way.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

So what do you want us to do right now? Give me a solution for the team that would fix our offensive problems. If you take out Campbell and insert Collins, do you think things would be different? Just give me a reasonable solution, and not just announce that you have given up on the team.

Well, at least you are not this guy...

Anyone who has read my posts knows I've supported JC in a big way throughout last year and prior to the Lions game. However the mistakes he's made in the last two games have me very concerned. I've still got to look at the 4th quarter of the game....but so far it appears JC is either regressing, or after a couple of games of film teams have figured out how to mess up JC and he's struggling.

I don't see this as an OL issue, for the most part he has time. I'm not buying the "WRs completely suck" argument either. I do see some playcalling issues in the run game (been saying that for 4 weeks), and there also may be some playcalling issues in the pass-game this week (still looking at that, damn I wish I had a full field view).

IMO right now the best thing to do is nothing. We must find out if JC can improve and stabilize, or if he's not going to make it. If we come into the Bye week and JC is still having the same issues he's had over the last two weeks with no improvement, we need to make a decision based on our record. If we still have a realistic shot at the playoffs (5-2 or 4-3) then Collins should go in. If we're out of it (2-5 or 3-4) based on the remaining 9 games, which are no joke, then we need to take a look at Woodson and start planning for life after JC.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Anyone who has read my posts knows I've supported JC in a big way throughout last year and prior to the Lions game. However the mistakes he's made in the last two games have me very concerned. I've still got to look at the 4th quarter of the game....but so far it appears JC is either regressing, or after a couple of games of film teams have figured out how to mess up JC and he's struggling.

I don't see this as an OL issue, for the most part he has time. I'm not buying the "WRs completely suck" argument either. I do see some playcalling issues in the run game (been saying that for 4 weeks), and there also may be some playcalling issues in the pass-game this week (still looking at that, damn I wish I had a full field view).

IMO right now the best thing to do is nothing. We must find out if JC can improve and stabilize, or if he's not going to make it. If we come into the Bye week and JC is still having the same issues he's had over the last two weeks with no improvement, we need to make a decision based on our record. If we still have a realistic shot at the playoffs (5-2 or 4-3) then Collins should go in. If we're out of it (2-5 or 3-4) based on the remaining 9 games, which are no joke, then we need to take a look at Woodson and start planning for life after JC.

I think in a situation like this I wish we had a project like Brennan waiting in the wings, throw him to the fire and see what he can do. I would hope that if Collins were to play, that our defense is performing better, and that our running game is up to speed.

As I said, if Campbell has a terrible game from beginning to the end, then he should be benched. Right now, I just want Ws in the next two games, ideally, I want a good offensive showing throughout the game, not just in one half or quarter.

[dmvskinzfan08]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I think in a situation like this I wish we had a project like Brennan waiting in the wings, throw him to the fire and see what he can do. I would hope that if Collins were to play, that our defense is performing better, and that our running game is up to speed.

As I said, if Campbell has a terrible game from beginning to the end, then he should be benched. Right now, I just want Ws in the next two games, ideally, I want a good offensive showing throughout the game, not just in one half or quarter.

I totally agree. The gentleman posted a link where I was ready to bench Campbell in the first half of the Bucs game. Which I was. SO that shows that I am not going to support JC no matter how he plays. That's all I care about is wins also. Only point I made was people wanted JC to take more risks and he did and it ended up in INTs. But he didn't hodl his head down. he came back at half time and brought us back for the win and seemingly redeemed himself.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I think in a situation like this I wish we had a project like Brennan waiting in the wings, throw him to the fire and see what he can do. I would hope that if Collins were to play, that our defense is performing better, and that our running game is up to speed.

We do, his name is Andre Woodson. Although his negatives seem real similar to JC's.

NFL Events: Combine Player Profiles - Andre' Woodson

As I said, if Campbell has a terrible game from beginning to the end, then he should be benched. Right now, I just want Ws in the next two games, ideally, I want a good offensive showing throughout the game, not just in one half or quarter.

I'm with you, we need wins, but JC has to improve ASAP. Over the last couple of games he could've single-handedly accounted for 8 turnovers.

If JC is benched and we're still in the hunt for the playoffs, Collins should be able to do enough to give us a chance to win each week if the D is called like it was on Sunday.

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Anyone who has read my posts knows I've supported JC in a big way throughout last year and prior to the Lions game. However the mistakes he's made in the last two games have me very concerned. I've still got to look at the 4th quarter of the game....but so far it appears JC is either regressing, or after a couple of games of film teams have figured out how to mess up JC and he's struggling.

I don't see this as an OL issue, for the most part he has time. I'm not buying the "WRs completely suck" argument either. I do see some playcalling issues in the run game (been saying that for 4 weeks), and there also may be some playcalling issues in the pass-game this week (still looking at that, damn I wish I had a full field view).

IMO right now the best thing to do is nothing. We must find out if JC can improve and stabilize, or if he's not going to make it. If we come into the Bye week and JC is still having the same issues he's had over the last two weeks with no improvement, we need to make a decision based on our record. If we still have a realistic shot at the playoffs (5-2 or 4-3) then Collins should go in. If we're out of it (2-5 or 3-4) based on the remaining 9 games, which are no joke, then we need to take a look at Woodson and start planning for life after JC.

I will be interested to read your analysis. "Regression" was also a term that came to my mind after watching the last two weeks.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Anyone who has read my posts knows I've supported JC in a big way throughout last year and prior to the Lions game. However the mistakes he's made in the last two games have me very concerned. I've still got to look at the 4th quarter of the game....but so far it appears JC is either regressing, or after a couple of games of film teams have figured out how to mess up JC and he's struggling.

I'll be more concerned if the mistakes continue. Right now I'm just pleased to see that he's being trusted to go out and make mistakes. For too long it seems like he wasn't trusted to do anything.

I don't see this as an OL issue, for the most part he has time. I'm not buying the "WRs completely suck" argument either. I do see some playcalling issues in the run game (been saying that for 4 weeks), and there also may be some playcalling issues in the pass-game this week (still looking at that, damn I wish I had a full field view).

I'm not sure he has quite enough time. But then again, if I recall correctly, Roethlisberger didn't have much time many times last year but still made things happen

IMO right now the best thing to do is nothing. We must find out if JC can improve and stabilize, or if he's not going to make it. If we come into the Bye week and JC is still having the same issues he's had over the last two weeks with no improvement, we need to make a decision based on our record. If we still have a realistic shot at the playoffs (5-2 or 4-3) then Collins should go in. If we're out of it (2-5 or 3-4) based on the remaining 9 games, which are no joke, then we need to take a look at Woodson and start planning for life after JC.

Wow, could you imagine if Woodson is the answer? I lean toward Campbell not being here in 2010. In fact, I wouldn't be all that stunned if neither Campbell nor Rogers are here, which would make the 2005 draft pretty dreadful. Here comes the Shanahan-Leinart era, or the Cowher-Skelton era, or the Holmgren-Snead era, or the Gruden-Clausen/Robinson era...

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I'll be more concerned if the mistakes continue. Right now I'm just pleased to see that he's being trusted to go out and make mistakes. For too long it seems like he wasn't trusted to do anything.

I'm almost done with the review and it ain't pretty for JC. I'm also looking (as best I can without full field film, you're welcome at any point to step up and sneak some out for me LOL) at the routes that are being called, just to see if this is also a Zorn issue. At first look it appears this is mostly a JC issue.

P.S. Clausen needs to stay at ND for 2010 and get a BCS championship with a healthy M. Floyd it's possible.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I'm almost done with the review and it ain't pretty for JC. I'm also looking (as best I can without full field film, you're welcome at any point to step up and sneak some out for me LOL) at the routes that are being called, just to see if this is also a Zorn issue. At first look it appears this is mostly a JC issue.

P.S. Clausen needs to stay at ND for 2010 and get a BCS championship with a healthy M. Floyd it's possible.

We should have never cut Chase

Sneak out film for you? You must be crazy

[dmvskinzfan08]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I'm almost done with the review and it ain't pretty for JC. I'm also looking (as best I can without full field film, you're welcome at any point to step up and sneak some out for me LOL) at the routes that are being called, just to see if this is also a Zorn issue. At first look it appears this is mostly a JC issue.

P.S. Clausen needs to stay at ND for 2010 and get a BCS championship with a healthy M. Floyd it's possible.

Guess on the strength of this review that we should start looking for another QB huh?

I think Bradford would have been the best bet before he got hurt. Clausen is good but I think he should stay another year. Woud like to see more big game action from him.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I'm almost done with the review and it ain't pretty for JC. I'm also looking (as best I can without full field film, you're welcome at any point to step up and sneak some out for me LOL) at the routes that are being called, just to see if this is also a Zorn issue. At first look it appears this is mostly a JC issue.

P.S. Clausen needs to stay at ND for 2010 and get a BCS championship with a healthy M. Floyd it's possible.

Watched again this morning, the line definitely gave him more time than I had originally given him credit for. Campbell's timing look off on his drops, I'll bet it comes out later that he's been playing with a more serious injury than anyone suspects.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I'll be more concerned if the mistakes continue. Right now I'm just pleased to see that he's being trusted to go out and make mistakes. For too long it seems like he wasn't trusted to do anything.

I agree. Maybe the pressure got to him or he's hurt worse than we're being told. Either way he kept fighting and pulled out a win. I was very happy to see he didn't quit.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I'm not sure he has quite enough time. But then again, if I recall correctly, Roethlisberger didn't have much time many times last year but still made things happen

indeed, dude gets hit more than campbell

he's got receivers that are really well in tune with his needs as far as coming back to the ball.. and probably a more fitting offense for himself and would be for Campbell as well

[MonkFan4Life]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

indeed, dude gets hit more than campbell

he's got receivers that are really well in tune with his needs as far as coming back to the ball.. and probably a more fitting offense for himself and would be for Campbell as well

No it really wouldn't because Al Saunders is in charge of the passing game in Baltimore and we all saw how Campbell just mastered and excelled under that system didn't we ?

[dgack]

The problem that I have with your analysis, SC, and I suspect many others are in the same boat here, is that you seem to think that Jason is an average or slightly above average QB, and that we merely need to 'address this in the offseason' as if this will resolve many of the team's issues.

And you're not the only one, plenty of people here are clamoring for Zorn and Campbell to be tossed overboard so we can begin our oh-so-beloved quest for the One True Player to deliver us from the arms of mediocrity. Oh, how we love the offseason courtships and dreams of free-spending our way to a championship.

Let me ask you this. Do you think Jason has "lost" the team? Don't you think every one of those guys is pulling for him and wants to see him succeed? After the way Snyder publicly humiliated the guy -- do you honestly think that it's going to be as simple as just replacing one cog in a machine with another, with no ramifications to the rest of the team? I sure don't. The quotes I read the clips I see of interviews tell me that these guys are behind Jason Campbell. All of them may not be with Zorn right now, but I don't see a lot of people preparing to throw JC under the bus. And they sure as hell aren't going to get excited about learning the quirks and habits and proficiencies and deficiencies of a new QB.

So ejecting Campbell and starting over WILL have consequences. We will regress. AGAIN. No new QB coming in here, short of an established veteran winner, is going to command the huddle and assert leadership over the team in their first season, either. You see Colt McCoy or Sam Bradford walking in here and saying "this is my team"? I don't think so.

No, I think what many of us are saying is that we should be capable of fielding a team that does not REQUIRE a quarterback to be a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning to compete at elite levels. Mark Rypien put up some good numbers for a few years, but was he an elite QB or a better-than-average QB who was a good fit in the system?

Kyle Orton is 4-0 this season. Is he elite? Or is he just being asked to be a competent QB most of the game and occasionally make some big plays?

Constantly chasing the holy grail QB is a waste of time. I don't have time to run the numbers, but I'm curious how often you really see a young highly touted QB prospect come in and turn around a team that is mired in mediocrity.

We need to fix a lot of other crap about this organization before we even think about looking for that miracle working QB.