Campbell's numbers dont lie

[irish]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

As I pointed out last week, he's got a higher YPA than Brady, McNabb, Cutler, Warner & Palmer. Seriously, it's sad how misinformed his detractors are.

Those players you mention throw down the field and miss more often than a 2 yard dink passer. Those misses are zeros in calculating the average and those zeros bring down the average. Like others have said, the numbers dont tell the whole story because to insinuate that JC is even close to those QBs you mentioned is insane.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by irish

Those players you mention throw down the field and miss more often than a 2 yard dink passer. Those misses are zeros in calculating the average and those zeros bring down the average. Like others have said, the numbers dont tell the whole story because to insinuate that JC is even close to those QBs you mentioned is insane.

So the deep passes Campbell missed on the past few weeks didn't count in his average? Completion percentage would be highly driven by 2 yard dink passes, yards per attempt would be adversely affected by a majority of those.

I didn't compare him to any of those QB, simply pointed out the gaping flaw in your simplistic and inaccurate criticism.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by irish

Those players you mention throw down the field and miss more often than a 2 yard dink passer. Those misses are zeros in calculating the average and those zeros bring down the average. Like others have said, the numbers dont tell the whole story because to insinuate that JC is even close to those QBs you mentioned is insane.

I don't think you understand what YPA is. It's also one of the four components in QB rating, so by extension, you don't really know what that is either.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

As I pointed out last week, he's got a higher YPA than Brady, McNabb, Cutler, Warner & Palmer. Seriously, it's sad how misinformed his detractors are.

You really put JC in the same sentence with Brady, McNadd, Warner & Palmer?

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by firstdown

You really put JC in the same sentence with Brady, McNadd, Warner & Palmer?

Some people like stats and think that it tells the whole story.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by firstdown

You really put JC in the same sentence with Brady, McNadd, Warner & Palmer?

In the context of dispelling a ridiculous criticism, yes. Not comparing him to them but if you're going to criticize, at least be accurate in your criticism.

[Green1]

Originally Posted by firstdown

You really put JC in the same sentence with Brady, McNadd, Warner & Palmer?

You have to, the numbers are there, and these QBs have been in the same Offense for years. JC's 5th year in the league and he has had 3 different Offenses to learn. Name one of those Qbs that has changed offenses in the last four seasons.

[Twilbert07]

Campbell's most important number is 4-10 over his past 14 starts. Time to try something different.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by Twilbert07

Campbell's most important number is 4-10 over his past 14 starts. Time to try something different.

This isn't baseball where individual players have win-loss records.

That's Zorn's record.

[Twilbert07]

Originally Posted by Buster

This isn't baseball where individual players have win-loss records.

That's Zorn's record.

You don't think QBs are judged by their W-L record? Hmmm. They get too much credit and too much blame, but as the field leader, that's the name of the game.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Why are all the former Campbell-supporters suddenly against him now? His play now isn't any worse as it was last year or the year before when we were saying he wasn't the right QB for this team. His completion percentage has actually IMPROVED a little every year. So what's changed your minds about Campbell? Or is it just a case of not seeing the improvement you were hoping for?

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Why are all the former Campbell-supporters suddenly against him now? His play now isn't any worse as it was last year or the year before when we were saying he wasn't the right QB for this team. His completion percentage has actually IMPROVED a little every year. So what's changed your minds about Campbell? Or is it just a case of not seeing the improvement you were hoping for?

I'm a Campbell supporter that hasn't turned on him but I am disappointed in what I've seen from him this year. I expected him to be much, much more productive when given the opportunities. I'm really starting to fear he's been Ramsey-fied. He's not playing QB, he's playing the role of a robot QB trying to be perfect and please his coach. He needs a major dose of 'f**k it' and just go out and play.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I'm a Campbell supporter that hasn't turned on him but I am disappointed in what I've seen from him this year. I expected him to be much, much more productive when given the opportunities. I'm really starting to fear he's been Ramsey-fied. He's not playing QB, he's playing the role of a robot QB trying to be perfect and please his coach. He needs a major dose of 'f**k it' and just go out and play.

I think, if we had stuck with the offense Gibbs drafted Campbell for, and we had given a top 10 offensive line, he could have become a really good QB in the NFL, perhaps even a franchise QB (although not an elite guy like Brady or Manning). However, those weren't the cards he was dealt. At the point Cerrato decided to hire Jim Zorn as head coach, it ruined Campbells chances of having becoming a franchise QB. Campbell was a square peg. the WCO is his round hole. It NEVER had a good chance of working. I don't know why so many people put faith in it.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I think, if we had stuck with the offense Gibbs drafted Campbell for, and we had given a top 10 offensive line, he could have become a really good QB in the NFL, perhaps even a franchise QB (although not an elite guy like Brady or Manning). However, those weren't the cards he was dealt. At the point Cerrato decided to hire Jim Zorn as head coach, it ruined Campbells chances of having becoming a franchise QB. Campbell was a square peg. the WCO is his round hole. It NEVER had a good chance of working. I don't know why so many people put faith in it.

Well, that's what makes us fans I guess. I really think that Gibbs over-coached him to the point where he's so terrified of turnovers he is still overcoming that over protective nature that was instilled in him.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Well, that's what makes us fans I guess. I really think that Gibbs over-coached him to the point where he's so terrified of turnovers he is still overcoming that over protective nature that was instilled in him.

I don't know. Campbell's forcing a lot of throws and committing a lot of errors.

We knew coming in that his low turnover rate wasn't sustainable, and he'd have to throw for more yards and TDs to cover for it. So far, he's done that, but thanks to the makeup of the rest of the offense, it hasn't helped translate to points. The additional points added by extending drives have been completely offset by the increase in turnovers. The run game has been spotty at best, which hasn't helped things.

I don't think the WCO is the issue, I just think that this is what we've built. Last year (first five games), we had five good or great players on offense: Kendall, Samuels, Portis, Campbell, and Cooley. As the year went on, Samuels and Portis became ineffective players for one reason or another, and that left us with three. Kendall walked in the offseason (he was probably having a career year anyway), and we replaced him, shrewedly, but with a mediocre Dockery.

With Samuels on the mend, Campbell and Cooley are the only things this offense has besides deception. If we bench Campbell, then it's just Cooley. There's probably no way to score points with just a QB and TE, and certainly no way to score with just a TE.

Thing is, we're getting better contribution on the marginal players this year than last year. Which is one of the things that led me to project an above average offense, and 11 wins. But there's just been no breakout on offense from either Campbell or anyone else.

Of course, in hindsight, Campbell did breakout last year. This is simply the limit of his value in an offense like the Redskins. Sadly, it's not good enough, and will never be.