Campbell's numbers dont lie

[mlmdub130]

Originally Posted by 44 70 chip

his recent play has definitely been significantly better, certainly more so than the goofy stats based "view point" this thread was originally based on.

I think the major concern should be the timing of his improved performance, and the fact that he's still failing and looking like his old hesitant self. Especially late in games; where a sustained drive for a TD wins either or both of the last few games.

He seems to play better when the game is either out of reach or there's less pressure (like now that the season is out of reach...) Once the game is on the line though.... Well lets put it this way did anyone feel like it would be Campbell and not Romo throwing a late game winning touchdown? I mean before Romo was the one who threw it? It was even more obvious when it was Brees or Campbell who had to win the game... EVERYONE saw that coming. Even before the missed kick, there was already a rank odor of "ut oh, here we go again" after that interception Campbell threw.

In a game where a last minute TD drive to go ahead is the holy grail of QB play Jason Campbell is not even living up to his mediocre stats by doing it a mediocre amount of the time...

I know there are fans who like him and want him to succeed because he's a nice guy but If a kicker makes the vast majority of his field goals but misses the ones that matter most, he's gone... How is this any different from a QB who looks okay most of the time but never puts together drives when it matters most?

because there were seemingly better options that shushi, what's better than jc? i can definitly name you a few worse than him in the league

[44 70 chip]

Originally Posted by mlmdub130

because there were seemingly better options that shushi, what's better than jc? i can definitly name you a few worse than him in the league

What a ringing endorsement... Jason Campbell because if we try to improve we might end up with someone worse...

[44 70 chip]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

On the flip side, if a new CBA is reached, and campbell becomes a FA, its probably worth tagging him. he'll be the top FA QB available in a very weak QB market - someone will trade a 2nd rounder for him.

I don't know about that... The draft has some very good QB's and even ignoring the draft I look around and I don't see many teams where JC would be welcomed aboard as a starting QB.... So IMO a 2nd round pick is not going to happen.

Do you sit Josh Freeman for JC? No, Gerrard? Don't think so, Maybe Buffalo is interested, but surely that would be an "open to competition" situation right? Raiders? No chance, Gradkowski already looks better than Campbell. San fran Alex Smith looks very good so no chance... Does Denver sit Orton for Campbell? No way... Quinn? Nope Quinn has way more upside, Detroit? Not Stafford No. . Henne looks better and has upside... Cassels... of course not not with the big contract. Seriously I don't think JC is a CLEAR upgrade for any team in the league besides POSSILBY Buffalo and that's a situation where they ALREADY have a young QB they invested in and would at best be an open competition with Campbell being the underdog... Hesselback? No, Vince Young? LOL yeah right... Delhomme maybe competition there with the incumbent having the advantage and a big contract... Cutler... maybe if they hadn't paid so much for him they're pretty stuck with him. Maybe I'm missing someone obvious but I don't see a team that FOR SURE even offers Campbell a fair shot at the starting position based on camp and preseason... Except the Redskins... Even his BEST prospect is competing with a high draft pick.

The Skins need to draft a potential franchise QB with the understanding that he wont play the first season at least. and offer Campbell a fair shot to compete for starting QB next season... With an open competition between Bartel, Campbell and Brennan... I can't be the only one who wants to See Bartel... Parcells finds better undrafted and late round QB's than most teams do with high draft picks. Unfortunately unless someone steps up next season, or the draft pick pulls a Rothlesberger and beats the other three out in spectacular fasion, then next season is a throw away year.

Speculating Mike Vick may be (for some teams) a more exciting possibility than Campbell... I think with Snyders facination with big names the Skins might even be interested. I like Vick's prospects to be a featured wildcat QB, for a team willing to try to run the cat 40 or 50% of the downs... No ones going to bring Vick in to be a conventional QB, but a GM/Coach with some creativity could build an unconventional offense around Vick...

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by 44 70 chip

I don't know about that... The draft has some very good QB's and even ignoring the draft I look around and I don't see many teams where JC would be welcomed aboard as a starting QB.... So IMO a 2nd round pick is not going to happen.

The draft has plenty of developmental QBs, but there's not a single one of them that can start in week 1 of 2010 and, in my opinion, you don't spend a first round pick (especially a high one) on a player who cannot make an immediate impact. You also have to look at how many teams will be looking for new coaches in 2010. And what is one thing that almost every new coach wants? A veteran quarterback. If Cowher ends up in Carolina, he's going to want a veteran QB and Campbell's the cream of the available crop. Campbell is improving his stock every week. He's showing what he can do when his line protects him and his receivers make plays. If we don't want to retain Campbell, there's certainly going to be a team out there who'd trade a 2nd for him.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

The draft has plenty of developmental QBs, but there's not a single one of them that can start in week 1 of 2010 and, in my opinion, you don't spend a first round pick (especially a high one) on a player who cannot make an immediate impact. You also have to look at how many teams will be looking for new coaches in 2010. And what is one thing that almost every new coach wants? A veteran quarterback. If Cowher ends up in Carolina, he's going to want a veteran QB and Campbell's the cream of the available crop. Campbell is improving his stock every week. He's showing what he can do when his line protects him and his receivers make plays. If we don't want to retain Campbell, there's certainly going to be a team out there who'd trade a 2nd for him.

You sure about that?

Mike Smith-rookie Matt Ryan
John Harbaugh-rookie Joe Flacco
Jim Schwartz-rookie Matt Stafford
Rex Ryan-rookie Mark Sanchez

I think there will be a market for Campbell (Arizona, Carolina, Seattle, Oakland, Cleveland, Jacksonville, St. Louis are all possibilities) but I think it will be a 3rd rounder at best

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

You sure about that?

Mike Smith-rookie Matt Ryan
John Harbaugh-rookie Joe Flacco
Jim Schwartz-rookie Matt Stafford
Rex Ryan-rookie Mark Sanchez

I think there will be a market for Campbell (Arizona, Carolina, Seattle, Oakland, Cleveland, Jacksonville, St. Louis are all possibilities) but I think it will be a 3rd rounder at best

i guess i should have clarified - when i made that statement, i was thinking more of the former HCs who will be looking for jobs in 2010. all the guys you mentioned were rookie HCs on teams that were, for all intents and purposes, rebuilding their teams from the ground up. However, its worth noting that, Matt Ryan aside, none of those teams drafted a rookie QB and expected to start him in 2010. Flacco won the job due to injuries to the guys above him and Sanchez and Stafford competed with veterans all through camp to earn starting jobs. In the case of Detroit, Culpepper was acquired to be the starter. In 2010, i see alot of "premier" franchises pursuing experienced HCs. Before the past 3 games, i'd have said Campbell wouldnt get more than a 3rd or 4th rounder. But if he continues playing like he has, he'd garner a 2nd and possibly another later round pick as well. The market for veteran QBs will be strong and the supply will be slim.

[diehardskin2982]

As much as I like Campbell's personality and the way he has played in the last few games, but it hasn't effected the bottom line... WINS.

[rbanerjee23]

Wow....^^^ you really think Gradkowsky is better than Campbell? he's got a raiders jersey on, automatically one of the worst players in the league lol

[44 70 chip]

No I think Jason Campbell is not CLEARLY a better QB than Gradkowski, and it's unlikely that the Raiders would view Campbell as clearly better and worth sending a 2nd round draft pick to the skins for. JC is a known commodity at this point (a middling QB)... Young guys and guys who haven't played much like Gradkowski, Vince Young, Alex Smith and Brady Quinn MIGHT turn out worse, or they MIGHT turn out much better, they have upside that Campbell doesn't... If you read what I wrote you'll see I'm saying None of those guys will be benched for Campbell as a sure thing, at BEST those teams hypothetically bring in Campbell to compete for the starting job... I don't think they spend 2nd round picks to bring in "competition".

[44 70 chip]

A few points that guy from Notre Dame is repeatedly mentioned as able to start his first year right out of the draft.

Ah the Rams I missed them, so the Rams and Buffalo are JC's best prospects and in both cases he would be viewed as competition, and might not even be viewed as desirable depending on who the Rams draft.

Cardinals? Um Matt Leinart? Sorry at best JC is viewed as a backup and probably does not have a real shot at the starting role unless Leinart Struggles.

Carolina Delhomme has a huge contract but you never know... Campbell is certainly not a sexy QB compared to what they have had in the past.

Seattle, their backup already looks better than Campbell

Browns... seriously I know most fans don't maybe watch that much of other teams, but if Brady Quinn isn't the Browns future Jason Campbell sure as hell isn't...

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by 44 70 chip

A few points that guy from Notre Dame is repeatedly mentioned as able to start his first year right out of the draft.

Ah the Rams I missed them, so the Rams and Buffalo are JC's best prospects and in both cases he would be viewed as competition, and might not even be viewed as desirable depending on who the Rams draft.

Cardinals? Um Matt Leinart? Sorry at best JC is viewed as a backup and probably does not have a real shot at the starting role unless Leinart Struggles.

Carolina Delhomme has a huge contract but you never know... Campbell is certainly not a sexy QB compared to what they have had in the past.

Seattle, their backup already looks better than Campbell

Browns... seriously I know most fans don't maybe watch that much of other teams, but if Brady Quinn isn't the Browns future Jason Campbell sure as hell isn't...

im really torn on Campbell, but he is wayyy better then Seneca Wallace

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by 44 70 chip

A few points that guy from Notre Dame is repeatedly mentioned as able to start his first year right out of the draft.

Ah the Rams I missed them, so the Rams and Buffalo are JC's best prospects and in both cases he would be viewed as competition, and might not even be viewed as desirable depending on who the Rams draft.

Cardinals? Um Matt Leinart? Sorry at best JC is viewed as a backup and probably does not have a real shot at the starting role unless Leinart Struggles.

Carolina Delhomme has a huge contract but you never know... Campbell is certainly not a sexy QB compared to what they have had in the past.

Seattle, their backup already looks better than Campbell

Browns... seriously I know most fans don't maybe watch that much of other teams, but if Brady Quinn isn't the Browns future Jason Campbell sure as hell isn't...

[MTK]

More than anything a coach wants "his guy" at QB. Not sure it matters if he's a rook or a vet.

[SmootSmack]

I think you're exposing your basic biases against Campbell

[44 70 chip]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I think you're exposing your basic biases against Campbell

that would assume I'm hiding it in the first place. Still there's more than one kind of bias, There's unfair Bias that has not been earned, and perfectly reasonable bias that has sprung from patent realistic appraisal, The latter lets you make decisions that might otherwise be overly clouded with emotion.

While looking decent for 2 or 3 quarter of most games JC has failed to deliver in multiple games where he had the game in his hands near the end. That's an objective observation. It's unequivocal evidence that Campbell isn't the QB the skins need him to be. All the stats in the world don't compare to the question: does he perform when it matters most? The answer is no, and after well over 40 games as a starter it is perfectly reasonable to say that we've seen what we've got... We saw in his first two seasons, but most of us afforded him excuses.

Now unfair "bias" on the other hand, would be using statistics compiled against 6 of the worst teams in the league to try and portray Campbell as a better QB than he really is, due to an emotional investment in the person. Disregarding what the eyes tell you on a game by game basis.