Campbell's numbers dont lie

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

JC played very well against the lions, he played well against the rams and did not play well against the giants.

JC's stats are in line for him to set career marks but lets not ignore JC's past stats and claim the 3 games of stats he has this year (with a huge portion of positive stats coming against the lions, rams and last 2 mins against the giants) should end all talk of JC not being more than a serviceable decent qb.

we can talk stats at the middle or end of the year; it was the lions, the freakin LIONS, and the JC lovers trot his stat sheet out like they have the cure to cancer.

let see how he looks at seasons end and talk stats. taking one or two games now and ignoring his past 20+ games doesnt seem genuine to me is your a stat lover. seems too selective to focus on one segment of numbers (3 games) and one portion of stats and not comparing them to the whole.

if the JC lovers can start this thread as an end all to the qb debate after he looked great against the lions can the JC bashers start a thread calling for his release after he looks crappy against a top 5 defense? i'd say no to both.

i dont understand either party here. he throws 1 td pass = hallelujah i told them guys JC is our man . . . he throws 1 int = gosh dangit this team is going nowhere with JC at the helm.

go skins!!

Which stats are ignored from his previous 20 games? How he continually improved his completion percentage, QB rating, YPA, TD:INT ratio? Which of those stats reflects negatively on him?

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Which stats are ignored from his previous 20 games? How he continually improved his completion percentage, QB rating, YPA, TD:INT ratio? Which of those stats reflects negatively on him?

lol are you going to tell that JC having the 19th best qb rating last year = great qb? seeems about avg to me, even slightly below avg for mathematicians.

or that he ranked 19th last year in pass yds and he played every game/snap versus other qbs who didnt even play every game.

look man, i like JC but i find it annoying that JC lovers trot out his stats after he looked good against the lions and rams and ignore everything else stat related. i can clearly see where the JC bashers are coming from and why they think that way. to question or attack skins fans who dont believe in JC is just being ignorant to a fault by JC lovers.

i say this alot, JC does enough things well and poorly to give both sides ammunition to fire at each other.

go skins!!

ps those 19th ranked qb stats are Jcs best year too, just imagine where he would rank if he totaled up his career stats and compared them.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

lol are you going to tell that JC having the 19th best qb rating last year = great qb? seeems about avg to me, even slightly below avg for mathematicians.

or that he ranked 19th last year in pass yds and he played every game/snap versus other qbs who didnt even play every game.

look man, i like JC but i find it annoying that JC lovers trot out his stats after he looked good against the lions and rams and ignore everything else stat related. i can clearly see where the JC bashers are coming from and why they think that way. to question or attack skins fans who dont believe in JC is just being ignorant to a fault by JC lovers.

i say this alot, JC does enough things well and poorly to give both sides ammunition to fire at each other.

go skins!!

ps those 19th ranked qb stats are Jcs best year too, just imagine where he would rank if he totaled up his career stats and compared them.

If you feel there's a statistical angle that reflects negatively on Jason, you should try to bring it up using specific evidence so we can move the thread in an intelligent manner.

If all you're saying is that the statistics say that Jason Campbell, in the Redskins offense, prior to this year has ranked in the 15-20 range among quarterbacks, well, yeah, I'd say that's 100% correct. If you're interpreting that as he can't be trusted with a bigger role, well, please tell us why.

[Trample the Elderly]

Campbell's numbers don't lie but neither does the score board.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

lol are you going to tell that JC having the 19th best qb rating last year = great qb? seeems about avg to me, even slightly below avg for mathematicians.

or that he ranked 19th last year in pass yds and he played every game/snap versus other qbs who didnt even play every game.

look man, i like JC but i find it annoying that JC lovers trot out his stats after he looked good against the lions and rams and ignore everything else stat related. i can clearly see where the JC bashers are coming from and why they think that way. to question or attack skins fans who dont believe in JC is just being ignorant to a fault by JC lovers.

i say this alot, JC does enough things well and poorly to give both sides ammunition to fire at each other.

go skins!!

ps those 19th ranked qb stats are Jcs best year too, just imagine where he would rank if he totaled up his career stats and compared them.

Please show me ANYWHERE that I have claimed JC is great. I'm begging you to find it. You won't because I (nor anyone I've seen) has claimed he is great. You will find 3 common themes among 'JC lovers' as you call them.

1. Campbell can be productive and a winner with the right support around him (solid OL, WR, running game).
2. Campbell has continually improved over his career despite all of the changes.
3. Campbell gives us the best chance to win of any QB on the roster.

You'll be hard pressed to find any 'JC lovers' claim much more than that but the 'JC bashers' come across as if he's the worst QB to step onto the field.

[Rajmahal33]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Please show me ANYWHERE that I have claimed JC is great. I'm begging you to find it. You won't because I (nor anyone I've seen) has claimed he is great. You will find 3 common themes among 'JC lovers' as you call them.

1. Campbell can be productive and a winner with the right support around him (solid OL, WR, running game).
2. Campbell has continually improved over his career despite all of the changes.
3. Campbell gives us the best chance to win of any QB on the roster.

You'll be hard pressed to find any 'JC lovers' claim much more than that but the 'JC bashers' come across as if he's the worst QB to step onto the field.

First of all, I'm not saying you are a "JC lover" or anything like that. Of those 3 points that JC defenders use, only 1 is true... #3

1) With a solid OL, WR corps, and running game, most QB's in the NFL are going to be "productive" and most likely "a winner" (esp with the type of defense we have)

2) The "all of the changes" argument is starting to get old. If these are professionals playing a professional (all year) sport, they need to be able to learn offenses. This is not a valid excuse anymore.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Please show me ANYWHERE that I have claimed JC is great. I'm begging you to find it. You won't because I (nor anyone I've seen) has claimed he is great. You will find 3 common themes among 'JC lovers' as you call them.

1. Campbell can be productive and a winner with the right support around him (solid OL, WR, running game).
2. Campbell has continually improved over his career despite all of the changes.
3. Campbell gives us the best chance to win of any QB on the roster.

You'll be hard pressed to find any 'JC lovers' claim much more than that but the 'JC bashers' come across as if he's the worst QB to step onto the field.

I'm not saying that. I too think he's the best athletic QB we have. He can make the long passes. He can scramble which Collins can't.

Like I said before part of our problem is our WR's coach Hixon who has failed misserably as a coach finding a way to get the WR's open for JC to throw the ball to. How come other teams make it look so easy to get the ball to their WR's? They don't have all day to throw. They have the same 3-5 seconds to get the ball out that we do. So I ask you whats the difference? I think the whole passing issue goes hand in hand, in other words I'm blaming JC and the WR's. I know the O-line has not been stellar but they have given JC enough time to get rid of the ball. Maybe our WR's need 10-15 seconds to get into position...I don't know. but it's hand in hand.

On a side note I see QB's like Delome throwing a ball out there like JC does and his WR's make the play on the ball. I think our WR's think the ball must simply fall into their hands with out any one getting in the way. I'd just like to see the WR's just battle for the ball once and a while.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

[/b]

I'm not saying that. I too think he's the best athletic QB we have. He can make the long passes. He can scramble which Collins can't.

Like I said before part of our problem is our WR's coach Hixon who has failed misserably as a coach finding a way to get the WR's open for JC to throw the ball to. How come other teams make it look so easy to get the ball to their WR's? They don't have all day to throw. They have the same 3-5 seconds to get the ball out that we do. So I ask you whats the difference? I think the whole passing issue goes hand in hand, in other words I'm blaming JC and the WR's. I know the O-line has not been stellar but they have given JC enough time to get rid of the ball. Maybe our WR's need 10-15 seconds to get into position...I don't know. but it's hand in hand.

On a side note I see QB's like Delome throwing a ball out there like JC does and his WR's make the play on the ball. I think our WR's think the ball must simply fall into their hands with out any one getting in the way. I'd just like to see the WR's just battle for the ball once and a while.

All I think you need to realize is that: just because we're losing on the scoreboard and not putting up points, doesn't necessarily mean that the passing game isn't working for us. If the passing game truly isn't working, the numbers will support that. I promise.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

All I think you need to realize is that: just because we're losing on the scoreboard and not putting up points, doesn't necessarily mean that the passing game isn't working for us. If the passing game truly isn't working, the numbers will support that. I promise.

Ok, then I don't know what I'm talking about. I look at other teams...including Detroit Sun. and see teams making it look easy getting the ball off to their receivers. Why does it seem like we are fighting mother nature to get ours the ball? Other then Moss's catch Sun. It's looked like all dink and dunk. Yes the stats look good but that was the only time our WR's seemed to be wide open with no defender within 5 yrds ready to tackle them. Why?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Ok, then I don't know what I'm talking about. I look at other teams...including Detroit Sun. and see teams making it look easy getting the ball off to their receivers. Why does it seem like we are fighting mother nature to get ours the ball? Other then Moss's catch Sun. It's looked like all dink and dunk. Yes the stats look good but that was the only time our WR's seemed to be wide open with no defender within 5 yrds ready to tackle them. Why?

Does it really seem like that to you? Even anecdotally, the intended receiver on more or less every Campbell pass seems to be wide open (about three forced throws not-withstanding). As for like, wide, wide open, if you can get that even once a game (which we did) you're doing well for yourself.

Part of the problem is that we don't have the ball very long because 1) we're not a quick strike offense, and 2) our defense takes 6 or 7 minutes to get off the field every time. So there's not a whole lot of passes we can waste on deep shots. We don't have the margin of error to not score touchdowns in the red zone. The solution is the same as the rest of the field: score on first or second down. Don't wait for third down when the receivers can be blanketed.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Which stats are ignored from his previous 20 games? How he continually improved his completion percentage, QB rating, YPA, TD:INT ratio? Which of those stats reflects negatively on him?

I'm not sure if he's refering to it or not but I kinda felt he was refering to using JC's whole 5 yrs in the league not just his last 2 yrs. I know he was not used in his what 1st and 2nd yr but you can atleast count the 2 yrs with Gibbs whether he finished the season or not.

No different then Dallas fans like to only count the 90's when refering to stats but our best yrs were in the 80's when they sucked.