Sally J.'s latest is spot on

[Spence]

At least Jerry Jones admits the he's making lots of personnel decisions and meets regularly with the media to discuss, explain and defend those positions. Snyder's too gutless to come out of the shadows, acknowledge what everyone already knows is the truth and face the music. Coaches and GMs around the league meet with the media to discuss and explain their decisions. Snyder, as the main personnel decision-maker, should do the same. It's cowardly to do otherwise.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Spence

At least Jerry Jones admits the he's making lots of personnel decisions and meets regularly with the media to discuss, explain and defend those positions. Snyder's too gutless to come out of the shadows, acknowledge what everyone already knows is the truth and face the music. Coaches and GMs around the league meet with the media to discuss and explain their decisions. Snyder, as the main personnel decision-maker, should do the same. It's cowardly to do otherwise.

This has to be the ultimate point of contention, what proof do you have that he is the main personnel decision-maker? or how do you define that statement?

He certainly has a weighted input, but once he hires a coach, he seems to let that coach get what he wants. Now if you are saying that because he signs the checks he is the main personnel decision-maker, then every owner is by definition the "main personnel decision-maker".

[Spence]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

He certainly has a weighted input, but once he hires a coach, he seems to let that coach get what he wants. Now if you are saying that because he signs the checks he is the main personnel decision-maker, then every owner is by definition the "main personnel decision-maker".

Snyder doesn't even let head coaches hire their own assistant coaches. Jerry Jones does that, too. I can't think of any other NFL owners who do that. The notion that Snyder leaves his coaches alone is false.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Spence

Snyder doesn't even let head coaches hire their own assistant coaches. Jerry Jones does that, too. I can't think of any other NFL owners who do that. The notion that Snyder leaves his coaches alone is false.

In retrospect, maybe Snyder should have been more thorough before telling Zorn to name Sherman Smith his offensive coordinator

[Spence]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

In retrospect, maybe Snyder should have been more thorough before telling Zorn to name Sherman Smith his offensive coordinator

You mean that offensive coordinator who doesn't call plays? I'm sure it was tough for Snyder to give in on that. Hopefully, he wasn't too upset at settling for the entire defensive coaching staff, the special teams coach and half the offensive coaching staff. What a trooper.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Spence

At least Jerry Jones admits the he's making lots of personnel decisions and meets regularly with the media to discuss, explain and defend those positions. Snyder's too gutless to come out of the shadows, acknowledge what everyone already knows is the truth and face the music. Coaches and GMs around the league meet with the media to discuss and explain their decisions. Snyder, as the main personnel decision-maker, should do the same. It's cowardly to do otherwise.

Could you give us a few links of JJ coming out all the time admitting he made mistakes?

[Spence]

George Michael, a close friend of Dan Snyder and Joe Gibbs, on the role Snyder plays in the front office:

"Let me tell you the truth: Dan does make I think most of those big-type decisions," Michael said. "He says 'Let's get this guy, let's get that guy.' And the guy that takes the heat for it--and it's why I think he's never gotten fired--is Vinny Cerrato. Now, Cerrato's painted as a bozo, but the truth is, what did Vinny Cerrato do for the team? Look at Chris Horton. That's the kind of guy he gets."

Source

[PennSkinsFan]

Originally Posted by Spence

George Michael, a close friend of Dan Snyder and Joe Gibbs, on the role Snyder plays in the front office:Source

Just read that. Fascinating interview. Love the comment about Zorn and improvement. We lose to the Lions and we improved. Hate to see what a step back would be.

Why would anyone doubt Snyder's involvement in personnel matters? The players usually confirm that after getting their big deals and thanking Snyder for his personal involvement. Of course Snyder is involved, that is why we have NO GM. Why do we think, Zorn is making the decisions to sign Haynesworth? Ummmmm, yeah right.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Spence

George Michael, a close friend of Dan Snyder and Joe Gibbs, on the role Snyder plays in the front office:Source

Here's a question. What does this mean?

Does it mean that Snyder, independent of Zorn and Snyder decided to go get this guy? Or does it mean Cerrato and staff did their yearly FA class evaluations and gave glowing reports on AH which caused Snyder to go get him. Big difference to me.

[Spence]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Here's a question. What does this mean?

Does it mean that Snyder, independent of Zorn and Snyder decided to go get this guy? Or does it mean Cerrato and staff did their yearly FA class evaluations and gave glowing reports on AH which caused Snyder to go get him. Big difference to me.

I think it means two things.

1. The meaning of what Michael said about Snyder's role is perfectly plain;
2. Those who like Snyder do not judge him by any tangible criteria [such as wins and losses] and are therefore unlikely to be impressed by any sort of argument against him, regardless of the facts or supporting evidence.

Therefore, debates like these can be diverting for a few minutes, but are ultimately fruitless. Two people will never agree on something if they use entirely different criteria to judge that subject. People like me judge Snyder based on the available evidence -- wins and losses. People who oppose my view of Snyder judge him on other criteria. I do not pretend to know exactly what that criteria might be, but I know it isn't wins and losses.

[SmootSmack]

Yes you do assume. Dan Snyder is not the general manager of the Redskins, Jerry Jones is the general manager of the Cowboys. Everyone wants Snyder to just say "Ok, I admit it. I'm the GM of the team. Haha, you got me. But, as hard as it is for everyone to believe, that's not the case. He is not the GM. His involvement is not the same as Jones' involvement with the Cowboys.

Snyder steps in as an abritrator between Zorn and Cerrato if necessary (just like JKC did), Snyder gets involved with signing the contract approving the money to be spent (just like JKC), Snyder gets involved, very involved, in sponsorship deals.

Snyder is consulted on roster decisions (just like JKC was). Snyder asks about certain players (just like JKC did).

Jenkins says Zorn was Snyder's selection and he should take responsibility for it. Norv Turner was JKC's selection, but I can't remember him taking responsibility for the Redskins being 3-13 in 1994, or starting 1-3 in 1995, or blowing a 7-1 start in 1996?

This isn't mean to hate on JKC at all, I thought he was a great owner. But there seems to be a lot of revisionist history about him.

As for Snyder never publicly admitting his mistakes

The Dan Snyder You Don't Know - Sports (washingtonian.com)

In his first three years as owner of the Redskins, Dan Snyder was much more successful at establishing a foundation and giving away money than at running the franchise.

“I made some real stupid decisions,” he says. “I made a lot of mistakes. I’m human.”
Snyder took over the Washington Redskins on July 14, 1999. He inherited Norv Turner as coach and Charley Casserly as general manager.

“They were fighting like cats and dogs,” he says. “We were in trouble. I couldn’t have these two guys sniping at one another.”

So he fired Casserly in September.

“You fired the wrong guy,” Casserly told him.

“If you’re right,” Snyder shot back, “you’ll be one of the first to know.”

Snyder also fired a bunch of longtime front-office workers. He brought in his own PR team, lead by Karl Swanson.

Hoping for a quick trip to the Super Bowl, he paid big money for aging stars Bruce Smith and Deion Sanders.

Snyder stuck with Norv Turner through the 1999 season, which was lackluster. With three games left in the 2000 season, the Redskins had a 7–6 record, and Snyder lost patience. He called Turner into his office at 11 am on December 4 and let him go.

“It was one of my worst moves,” he says. “It was plain stupid. I was a new owner pissed about losing.”

It was also the first move that showed fans and reporters Dan Snyder’s impatient side. In business, Snyder could replace a manager in the dead of night with a phone call. The Redskins were considered a public utility, and every move was blared in the media and dissected on sports-radio talk shows.

After Snyder fired Turner, he says, he called Casserly and said, “You were right.”

http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-n...an-snyder.html

WSJ: Do you see the term micromanaging as being a media-driven one or do you think there are some people who think you might be a little too involved on a day-to-day basis?

Mr. Snyder: I probably was when I first got here.

Early on I probably didn't have the level of patience needed to take place when you're talking about this sport of NFL football, because it really is a building process. You build through free-agency and the draft and I think that if you can look over the years you'd see a lot of improvement over how the club goes about getting players and keeping players and re-signing our existing players.

[Spence]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Yes you do assume. Dan Snyder is not the general manager of the Redskins, Jerry Jones is the general manager of the Cowboys. Everyone wants Snyder to just say "Ok, I admit it. I'm the GM of the team. Haha, you got me. But, as hard as it is for everyone to believe, that's not the case. He is not the GM. His involvement is not the same as Jones' involvement with the Cowboys.

Whether Snyder holds the title of GM is not relevant. What matters is who is making the personnel decisions. Snyder is making those decisions, decisions he is not qualified to make. Those are decisions that, on almost every other team, are made by men who have spent their entire adult lives studying football.

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Snyder steps in as an abritrator between Zorn and Cerrato if necessary (just like JKC did), Snyder gets involved with signing the contract approving the money to be spent (just like JKC), Snyder gets involved, very involved, in sponsorship deals.

Snyder is consulted on roster decisions (just like JKC was). Snyder asks about certain players (just like JKC did).

If you think Snyder's involvement with personnel decisions is equivalent to Cooke's involvement in personnel decisions, then...I don't even know how to finish that sentence. I had no idea a single human being on this planet believed that. I think in the interest of maintaining good relations with others on this board, I'll end my comments on that subject right there.

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

As for Snyder never publicly admitting his mistakes

The Dan Snyder You Don't Know - Sports (washingtonian.com)

In his first three years as owner of the Redskins, Dan Snyder was much more successful at establishing a foundation and giving away money than at running the franchise.

“I made some real stupid decisions,” he says. “I made a lot of mistakes. I’m human.”
Snyder took over the Washington Redskins on July 14, 1999. He inherited Norv Turner as coach and Charley Casserly as general manager.

“They were fighting like cats and dogs,” he says. “We were in trouble. I couldn’t have these two guys sniping at one another.”

So he fired Casserly in September.

“You fired the wrong guy,” Casserly told him.

“If you’re right,” Snyder shot back, “you’ll be one of the first to know.”

Snyder also fired a bunch of longtime front-office workers. He brought in his own PR team, lead by Karl Swanson.

Hoping for a quick trip to the Super Bowl, he paid big money for aging stars Bruce Smith and Deion Sanders.

Snyder stuck with Norv Turner through the 1999 season, which was lackluster. With three games left in the 2000 season, the Redskins had a 7–6 record, and Snyder lost patience. He called Turner into his office at 11 am on December 4 and let him go.

“It was one of my worst moves,” he says. “It was plain stupid. I was a new owner pissed about losing.”

It was also the first move that showed fans and reporters Dan Snyder’s impatient side. In business, Snyder could replace a manager in the dead of night with a phone call. The Redskins were considered a public utility, and every move was blared in the media and dissected on sports-radio talk shows.

After Snyder fired Turner, he says, he called Casserly and said, “You were right.”

http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-n...an-snyder.html

WSJ: Do you see the term micromanaging as being a media-driven one or do you think there are some people who think you might be a little too involved on a day-to-day basis?

Mr. Snyder: I probably was when I first got here.

Early on I probably didn't have the level of patience needed to take place when you're talking about this sport of NFL football, because it really is a building process. You build through free-agency and the draft and I think that if you can look over the years you'd see a lot of improvement over how the club goes about getting players and keeping players and re-signing our existing players.

My goodness, you certainly are very impressed by Snyder admitting one mistake he made 9 years ago. I guess that explains everything that has happened since, eh? It explains why he fired Marty Schottenheimer, saying he wasn't having any fun. It explains the Spurrier disaster. It explains getting rid of Stephen Davis for Trung Canidate. It explains the lousy game day experience at FedEx, explains the endless wads of cash wasted on players who never performed and explains the .455 winning percentage.

Basically, this subject is divided into two opposing camps. One camp looks at that .455 winning percentage and cheers Dan Snyder for the keen insight he has brought to the franchise. Another camp looks at that .455 winning percentage, then looks around the league and is disgusted by ownership they regard as being more concerned with public relations than football games.

One camp likes being champions of the offseason. The other camp would rather be champions of the Super Bowl. The priorities are so vastly different, I can't imagine any agreement on this issue will ever emerge.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Spence

Whether Snyder holds the title of GM is not relevant. What matters is who is making the personnel decisions. Snyder is making those decisions, decisions he is not qualified to make. Those are decisions that, on almost every other team, are made by men who have spent their entire adult lives studying football.

What matters is that you simply believe what you want to believe. Snyder could die today, we could go 1-15 for the next 10 years and you'd probably still say "Well Snyder is the one making the personnel decisions." And whatever you think of Cerrato (and Scott Campbell and Morocco Brown) what do you think they've been doing their adult lives? Do you think they were plucked from playing the piano at Nordstrom's?

If you think Snyder's involvement with personnel decisions is equivalent to Cooke's involvement in personnel decisions, then...I don't even know how to finish that sentence. I had no idea a single human being on this planet believed that. I think in the interest of maintaining good relations with others on this board, I'll end my comments on that subject right there.

Again, this is all based on your assumptions about what Snyder does.

My goodness, you certainly are very impressed by Snyder admitting one mistake he made 9 years ago. I guess that explains everything that has happened since, eh? It explains why he fired Marty Schottenheimer, saying he wasn't having any fun. It explains the Spurrier disaster. It explains getting rid of Stephen Davis for Trung Canidate. It explains the lousy game day experience at FedEx, explains the endless wads of cash wasted on players who never performed and explains the .455 winning percentage.

Just pointing out that Snyder's admitted mistakes in the past. The Schottenheimer situation was bad all around (Snyder and players at fault), I wish Marty was still here. I won't even continue with the rest because it's been rehashed over and over again.

Basically, this subject is divided into two opposing camps. One camp looks at that .455 winning percentage and cheers Dan Snyder for the keen insight he has brought to the franchise. Another camp looks at that .455 winning percentage, then looks around the league and is disgusted by ownership they regard as being more concerned with public relations than football games.

One camp likes being champions of the offseason. The other camp would rather be champions of the Super Bowl. The priorities are so vastly different, I can't imagine any agreement on this issue will ever emerge.

It's divided into two opposing camps. One camp that is frustrated at the .455 winning percentage, wants to win the Super Bowl, accepts that as a franchise we have made mistakes, realizes that we have also made wise decisions, recognizes that perception is not always reality, understands that past ownership had its "flaws", realizes this ownership isn't going anywhere anytime soon, and doesn't assume what this ownership group does and what other owners do...the other camp believes what they want to believe

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

What matters is that you simply believe what you want to believe. Snyder could die today, we could go 1-15 for the next 10 years and you'd probably still say "Well Snyder is the one making the personnel decisions." And whatever you think of Cerrato (and Scott Campbell and Morocco Brown) what do you think they've been doing their adult lives? Do you think they were plucked from playing the piano at Nordstrom's?



Again, this is all based on your assumptions about what Snyder does.



Just pointing out that Snyder's admitted mistakes in the past. The Schottenheimer situation was bad all around (Snyder and players at fault), I wish Marty was still here. I won't even continue with the rest because it's been rehashed over and over again.



It's divided into two opposing camps. One camp that is frustrated at the .455 winning percentage, wants to win the Super Bowl, accepts that as a franchise we have made mistakes, realizes that we have also made wise decisions, recognizes that perception is not always reality, understands that past ownership had its "flaws", realizes this ownership isn't going anywhere anytime soon, and doesn't assume what this ownership group does and what other owners do...the other camp believes what they want to believe

Couldn't be said any better.

[Spence]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

What matters is that you simply believe what you want to believe. Snyder could die today, we could go 1-15 for the next 10 years and you'd probably still say "Well Snyder is the one making the personnel decisions." And whatever you think of Cerrato (and Scott Campbell and Morocco Brown) what do you think they've been doing their adult lives? Do you think they were plucked from playing the piano at Nordstrom's?

No, I'm pretty sure I would not decide that a corpse is making the personnel decisions for the Washington Redskins. Yes, I'm pretty sure of that. As for Vinny Cerrato, Scott Campbell and Morocco Brown, I don't know what they've been doing their entire adult lives, but I know what they have not been doing: Building Super Bowl champions. And by the way, I believe what the facts tell me to believe.

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

It's divided into two opposing camps. One camp that is frustrated at the .455 winning percentage, wants to win the Super Bowl, accepts that as a franchise we have made mistakes, realizes that we have also made wise decisions, recognizes that perception is not always reality, understands that past ownership had its "flaws", realizes this ownership isn't going anywhere anytime soon, and doesn't assume what this ownership group does and what other owners do...the other camp believes what they want to believe

You're right, perception is not always reality. You know what IS reality? Reality. And the reality is a .455 losing percentage. Reality is losing to the Lions and then having a coach tell the public that the team is improving. Reality is watching every team in the NFC East win a division championship, except the Redskins, since Dan Snyder started making decisions. Reality is cutting Brian Mitchell so the team could rent 9-toe Deion Sanders for one season. That is the savage, inevitable, remorseless reality.

I certainly accept that past ownership has its flaws. Past ownership hired Norv Tuner and continued to employ him for years after it was abundantly clear that he was a poor head coach and a godawful talent evaluator. If Dan Snyder has made one good decision it was firing Norv Turner, though he did it at the wrong time and in the wrong way. Desmond Howard, Tom Carter, Heath Shuler, Michael Westbrook and Andre Johnson were all drafted in the first round by past ownership. It was past ownership that brought that fat, lazy pantload Dana Stubblefield to Washington. Past ownership screwed up plenty from 1992-1998.

None of that excuses Dan Snyder for what he has done. And none of that erases the three Super Bowls past ownership did win before it went senile and couldn't tell its ass from its elbow.