Campbell's numbers dont lie

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Have you been watched them play? Sanchez is the real deal. Cutler is the real deal. Campbell got the vast majority of his yards in and both of his TDs when opposing defenses were holding on to a lead and playing prevent. Rodney Harrison called Campbell out for what he is - a backup QB who no one is afraid of. He's certainly the best QB on our roster now, but come 2010, he won't be a starter for this team or any other in the NFL.

Rodney Harrison is an expert now? I think your bullshit meter is broken.

I've watched Cutler play for a long time and he impresses me no more or less than Campbell has. And now he's going through a system transition for the first time in his career, and the results haven't been very good. Sanchez has amazing attention to detail in his work and a lot of really smart people think he's going to be really special, but I happen to not be one of those people. Plus right now, it's not even close. You'd take Campbell's production over Sanchez' produciton 100 out of 100 times.

Sanchez might end up having the better career, but as Paintrain pointed out, who cares? We were never in position to draft him, no matter how serious we were about liking him. Blame Zorn for beating up on Dallas and Philly last year -- if you must.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Rodney Harrison is an expert now? I think your bullshit meter is broken.

I've watched Cutler play for a long time and he impresses me no more or less than Campbell has. And now he's going through a system transition for the first time in his career, and the results haven't been very good. Sanchez has amazing attention to detail in his work and a lot of really smart people think he's going to be really special, but I happen to not be one of those people. Plus right now, it's not even close. You'd take Campbell's production over Sanchez' produciton 100 out of 100 times.

Sanchez might end up having the better career, but as Paintrain pointed out, who cares? We were never in position to draft him, no matter how serious we were about liking him. Blame Zorn for beating up on Dallas and Philly last year -- if you must.

I'll take a recent elite defensive player with a superbowl rings opinion over most others any day of the week.

I don't see how you can actually watch Cutler and Campbell play and think theyre equal. Theyre most certainly not. And Josh McDaniels, a guy who coached the best QB in the league, a guy who knows more about QBs than anyone here wanted Kyle Orton over Jason Campbell. If that's not damning for Campbell, then I dont know what is.

As to Sanchez, the Jets have far less talent on Offense than we do. That, combined with the fact that he's a rookie, makes his performance that more impressive. I'm impressed when i watch him and I respect Trent Diflers opinion on QBs and he's very high on Sanchez. In 5 years, or whenever Manning and Brady retire, Sanchez will be one of the top 3 QBs in the league. No, we were not in a position to draft him, but we should have tried harder to put ourselves in a position to be. Now we're gonna be stuck drafting one of the overrated QBs in the 2010 draft. On the bright side, atleast whoever we hire to replace Zorn will get to pick his own QB.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I'll take a recent elite defensive player with a superbowl rings opinion over most others any day of the week.

I don't see how you can actually watch Cutler and Campbell play and think theyre equal. Theyre most certainly not. And Josh McDaniels, a guy who coached the best QB in the league, a guy who knows more about QBs than anyone here wanted Kyle Orton over Jason Campbell. If that's not damning for Campbell, then I dont know what is.

As to Sanchez, the Jets have far less talent on Offense than we do. That, combined with the fact that he's a rookie, makes his performance that more impressive. I'm impressed when i watch him and I respect Trent Diflers opinion on QBs and he's very high on Sanchez. In 5 years, or whenever Manning and Brady retire, Sanchez will be one of the top 3 QBs in the league. No, we were not in a position to draft him, but we should have tried harder to put ourselves in a position to be. Now we're gonna be stuck drafting one of the overrated QBs in the 2010 draft.

Even if that player talks bullshit every time he opens his mouth? Or, wait, let me guess, you didn't pay attention to Rodney Harrison before you heard he said this.

Fine, they're not equal. Campbell is a lot better this year. Or so the statistics say. Ridiculousness of the Kyle Orton fiasco aside, the guy (Orton) is badly outproducing Cutler this year. And well, since he's only completing 57% of his passes, no, that probably won't last.

It's not true to say that Sanchez doesn't have as much talent on offense as we do. Sanchez is playing behind the best, or second best OL in the AFC. That's a huge advanage over our line which lost our most veteran interior lineman a week ago. They have the best center in the league, we have one of the worst. In fact, the only position we are actually better at is LT.

The receivers are pretty comprable (Cotchery > Moss, Kelly > Stuckey, ARE > Clowney, Cooley > Keller, and all those matchups are pretty close), but don't you look longingly at that running game and wish you could get a piece of it?

Sanchez is working with more than either Cutler or Campbell, and now that Cutler has no OL, he's got a career high sack rate and 5 INT in 3 games. In many ways his early development was a complete product of the offensive environment in Denver, and he might be 3 years away from being a pro bowl QB for the Bears. I wonder if they will have the patience to wait him out :yeahright.

Your ability to selectively defer to the knowledge of only those who agree with you never ceases to amaze.

[dmvskinzfan08]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

The receivers are pretty comprable (Cotchery > Moss, Kelly > Stuckey, ARE > Clowney, Cooley > Keller, and all those matchups are pretty close), but don't you look longingly at that running game and wish you could get a piece of it?

Not to mention they have Leon Washington and Thomas Jones. Also a rookie with promise in S Greene.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I'll take a recent elite defensive player with a superbowl rings opinion over most others any day of the week.

I don't see how you can actually watch Cutler and Campbell play and think theyre equal. Theyre most certainly not. And Josh McDaniels, a guy who coached the best QB in the league, a guy who knows more about QBs than anyone here wanted Kyle Orton over Jason Campbell. If that's not damning for Campbell, then I dont know what is.

As to Sanchez, the Jets have far less talent on Offense than we do. That, combined with the fact that he's a rookie, makes his performance that more impressive. I'm impressed when i watch him and I respect Trent Diflers opinion on QBs and he's very high on Sanchez. In 5 years, or whenever Manning and Brady retire, Sanchez will be one of the top 3 QBs in the league. No, we were not in a position to draft him, but we should have tried harder to put ourselves in a position to be. Now we're gonna be stuck drafting one of the overrated QBs in the 2010 draft. On the bright side, atleast whoever we hire to replace Zorn will get to pick his own QB.

1. Since Harrison was part of a Super Bowl team, everything he says is correct? Now that's just poor critical thinking.

2. You are correct, I do not see Cutler and Campbell as equals, despite the fact that their stats are similar in many ways. Campbell is superior because he is not Captain Turnover like Cutler is.

3. What is the point of bringing up Cutler and Sanchez? Neither one of them will qb the Skins any time soon, if ever. It would be just as rewarding to discuss how Y.A. Tittle would do with the 2009 Skins.

4. You vastly underestimate the Jets offense.

5. Your sig has bugged me for some time because of its inaccuracy. Many studies have shown that dolphins do in fact "know what they are doing." They are quite intelligent and can recognize different shapes, different colors, and different verbal cues. They definitely know where the shore is and where open sea is because their food habits require such. Read the ethological literature about dolphins and you will realize that your sig advertises ignorance.

So, in sum, you have underestimated Campbell, the Jets offense, and dolphins. You have overestimated Rodney Harrison's insight. Good luck with all of that.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Lotus

1. Since Harrison was part of a Super Bowl team, everything he says is correct? Now that's just poor critical thinking.

No, but, he was an elite defensive player, and he's confirming a point that is blatantly obvious to anyone who's looking objectively.

2. You are correct, I do not see Cutler and Campbell as equals, despite the fact that their stats are similar in many ways. Campbell is superior because he is not Captain Turnover like Cutler is.

-Cutler throws WAY more TDs than Camble.
-Campbell SHOULD have atleast 4 INTs (if defenders had held on to easy interceptions) and, in honesty, 2 more TDs (if Sellers and Thomas could catch balls that hit them in the hands. Conversely, Campbell has missed wide-open guys for big plays a number of times (check photo-evidence of this on extremeskins).
-If you honestly think Campbell is clearly better than Cutler, then youre simply dellusional. There's no evidence of this whatsoever.

3. What is the point of bringing up Cutler and Sanchez? Neither one of them will qb the Skins any time soon, if ever. It would be just as rewarding to discuss how Y.A. Tittle would do with the 2009 Skins.

No, i could discuss about 20 other QBs in the NFL that I would rather have than Campbell. Cutler and Sanchez are the two we allegedly had interest in in the offseason, hence the comparison.

4. You vastly underestimate the Jets offense.

Depends on how you look at it. Their offense is good, because they have a good playcaller and excellent QB. We have a below-average QB and horrible play-caller. That said, the actual talent we have on offense is noteably superior to the Jets.

5. Your sig has bugged me for some time because of its inaccuracy. Many studies have shown that dolphins do in fact "know what they are doing." They are quite intelligent and can recognize different shapes, different colors, and different verbal cues. They definitely know where the shore is and where open sea is because their food habits require such. Read the ethological literature about dolphins and you will realize that your sig advertises ignorance.

My sig is a quote from Dwight on the Office. I do not endorse any particular view on sea-faring mammals. I simply found the quote amusing.

So, in sum, you have underestimated Campbell, the Jets offense, and dolphins. You have overestimated Rodney Harrison's insight. Good luck with all of that.

Thank you for wishing me luck. You should probably wish some on yourself. At this time next year, Campbell will be a backup QB somewhere. I don't think his career path will take as bad of a turn as Patrick Ramsey's, but the only way he ever starts again in this league is if a guy Jamarcus Russell or Matt Schuab gets hurt.

[dgack]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

-If you honestly think Campbell is clearly better than Cutler, then youre simply dellusional. There's no evidence of this whatsoever.

Well, except for statistics. But who needs them, when the Denver Broncos new head coach and Rodney Harrison say otherwise.

No, i could discuss about 20 other QBs in the NFL that I would rather have than Campbell.

Now this I would like to see. Not because I think Soup is the best QB ever, but because I think he's probably in that "12th - 15th best in the league" tier which *should* be good enough for a power running team with a strong defense to make a serious playoff run.

So let's hear it -- who are the other 20 QB's you'd take right now over Campbell?

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I'll take a recent elite defensive player with a superbowl rings opinion over most others any day of the week.

I don't see how you can actually watch Cutler and Campbell play and think theyre equal. Theyre most certainly not. And Josh McDaniels, a guy who coached the best QB in the league, a guy who knows more about QBs than anyone here wanted Kyle Orton over Jason Campbell. If that's not damning for Campbell, then I dont know what is.

As to Sanchez, the Jets have far less talent on Offense than we do. That, combined with the fact that he's a rookie, makes his performance that more impressive. I'm impressed when i watch him and I respect Trent Diflers opinion on QBs and he's very high on Sanchez. In 5 years, or whenever Manning and Brady retire, Sanchez will be one of the top 3 QBs in the league. No, we were not in a position to draft him, but we should have tried harder to put ourselves in a position to be. Now we're gonna be stuck drafting one of the overrated QBs in the 2010 draft. On the bright side, atleast whoever we hire to replace Zorn will get to pick his own QB.

I don't get your fascination with Rodney Harrison. The guy has been an NFL analyst all of four weeks and now he's suddenley the Jason Campbell expert? If Super Bowl rings are the new standard for valuing one's opinion, then I'm sure there are a few people out there with Super Bowl rings that think very highly of Jason Campbell. In fact, a guy name Joe Gibbs who has three of them comes to mind. But I digress.

You're entitled to your critique of Jason Campbell. Is he one of the top tier QBs in the league right now, probably not. But the quarterbacks that are have a strong supporting cast from top to bottom, my friend. I submit that Jason Campbell is doing much more with less.

And for all the Campbell haters calling for Todd Collins to come in, you need your head checked if you don't think Collins gets sacked at least four or five times today.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I don't get your fascination with Rodney Harrison. The guy has been an NFL analyst all of four weeks and now he's suddenley the Jason Campbell expert? If Super Bowl rings are the new standard for valuing one's opinion, then I'm sure there are a few people out there with Super Bowl rings that think very highly of Jason Campbell. In fact, a guy name Joe Gibbs who has three of them comes to mind. But I digress.

You're entitled to your critique of Jason ampbell. Is he one of the top tier QBs in the league right now, probably not. But the quarterbacks that are have a strong supporting cast from top to bottom, my friend. I submit that Jason Campbell is doing much more with less.

And for all the Campbell haters calling for Todd Collins to come in, you need your head checked if you don't think Collins gets sacked at least four or five times today.

It's funny how people say "well Denver didn't want Campbell and took Orton"...well newsflash, they didn't want Cutler either. It's obvious that Darth Hoody Jr. wanted his own QB, and talent hasn't much to do with it, otherwise he would have kept Cutler.

I don't know why these JC haters think some of us are arguing that Campbell is an elite QB. My beef with these haters is that...

- They think Campbell is the only problem in this team
- Want to blame him for losing a game (which he hasn't)
- Attack him when he does well
- And think everything he does well is luck.

I want for Campbell to be a game manager QB. Our team is supposed to have a good running game and defense that just needs an average QB to win. In the past couple of games, Campbell has been a bit above average, but our "strengths" haven't been there, hence the two losses.

In this game, our running game was there in the second half and our defense stepped things up. Campbell almost lost this game by having those turnovers, but he threw two TDs. If he doesn't throw those two TDs, he loses the game for us and the haters get their argument win. He didn't lose the game, so the haters get a disappointment and now must wait another week until their dream of the Jason Campbell breakdown becomes a reality.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

It's funny how people say "well Denver didn't want Campbell and took Orton"...well newsflash, they didn't want Cutler either. It's obvious that Darth Hoody Jr. wanted his own QB, and talent hasn't much to do with it, otherwise he would have kept Cutler.

I don't know why these JC haters think some of us are arguing that Campbell is an elite QB. My beef with these haters is that...

- They think Campbell is the only problem in this team
- Want to blame him for losing a game (which he hasn't)
- Attack him when he does well
- And think everything he does well is luck.

I want for Campbell to be just an average or above average QB. Our team is supposed to have a good running game and defense that just needs an average QB to win. In the past couple of games, Campbell has been a bit above average, but our "strengths" haven't been there, hence the two losses.

In this game, our running game was there in the second half and our defense stepped things up. Campbell almost lost this game by having those turnovers, but he threw two TDs. If he doesn't throw those two TDs, he loses the game for us and the haters get their argument win. He didn't lose the game, so the haters get a disappointment and now must wait another week until their dream of the Jason Campbell breakdown becomes a reality.

It's call nitpicking, but don't tell Rodney Harrison that

[dgack]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

In this game, our running game was there in the second half and our defense stepped things up. Campbell almost lost this game by having those turnovers, but he threw two TDs.

Yeah, dude came back and overcame a bad half which is a lot easier said than done.

His QB rating in the 3rd quarter was 157.2 (which is almost perfect). That's a good sign after a half of play where his rating was an unbelievably bad 13.8.