Campbell's numbers dont lie

[Monkeydad]

UPDATED stats/assessment:

Cutler:
WK 4 - 18/28 (64.3%), 141 yds, 2 TD, 0 INTS, 100.4 rating, 8 rush yds
TOTAL: 83/129 (64.3%), 901 yds, 8 TD, 5 INT, 89.3 rating, 22 rush yds

Sanchez:
WK 4 - 14/27 (51.9%), 138 yds, 0 TD, 3 INT, 27.0 rating, 24 rush yds
TOTAL: 63/110 (57.3%), 744 yds, 4 TD, 5 INT, 71.2 rating, 38 rush yds

Campbell:
WK 4 - 12/22 (54.5%), 170 yds, 2 TD, 3 INT, 70.5 rating, 20 rush yds
TOTAL: 81/124 (65.3%), 963 yds, 5 TD, 5 INT, 85.5 rating, 85 rush yds


Ranks:
Comp. % = Campell, Cutler, Sanchez
Yds = Campell (963), Cutler (901), Sanchez (744)
TDs = Cutler (8), Campbell (5), Sanchez (4)
INTs = Campbell/Cutler/Sanchez (5 ea)
QB rating = Cutler (89.3), Campbell (85.5), Sanchez (71.2)
Rush yds = Campbell (85), Sanchez(38), Cutler (22)


Campbell, despite tehe bad half in the TB game, is still leading all three QBs in most categories. All QBs have an equal 5 INTs. He has more yards than Cutler and Sanchez, both in the air and on the ground. If he did not have those couple of TDs dropped earlier in the season, he'd be even with Cutler on TDs and ahead on Rating, the only two categories he's not leading. The 3 INTs vs. TB is not typical Campbell play, as he's usually one of the best QBs in the NFL at NOT throwing INTs. That performance will be an anomaly this season and he'll finish with far less INTs thrown than the other two QBs we're comparing. Also, despite a weak-looking stat line, he led all three QBs in production in Week 4. Against the same Lions team, Cambell had 200 MORE YARDS than Cutler.

[dmvskinzfan08]

Originally Posted by Buster

UPDATED stats/assessment:

Cutler:
WK 4 - 18/28 (64.3%), 141 yds, 2 TD, 0 INTS, 100.4 rating, 8 rush yds
TOTAL: 83/129 (64.3%), 901 yds, 8 TD, 5 INT, 89.3 rating, 22 rush yds

Sanchez:
WK 4 - 14/27 (51.9%), 138 yds, 0 TD, 3 INT, 27.0 rating, 24 rush yds
TOTAL: 63/110 (57.3%), 744 yds, 4 TD, 5 INT, 71.2 rating, 38 rush yds

Campbell:
WK 4 - 12/22 (54.5%), 170 yds, 2 TD, 3 INT, 70.5 rating, 20 rush yds
TOTAL: 81/124 (65.3%), 963 yds, 5 TD, 5 INT, 85.5 rating, 85 rush yds


Ranks:
Comp. % = Campell, Cutler, Sanchez
Yds = Campell (963), Cutler (901), Sanchez (744)
TDs = Cutler (8), Campbell (5), Sanchez (4)
INTs = Campbell/Cutler/Sanchez (5 ea)
QB rating = Cutler (89.3), Campbell (85.5), Sanchez (71.2)
Rush yds = Campbell (85), Sanchez(38), Cutler (22)


Campbell, despite tehe bad half in the TB game, is still leading all three QBs in most categories. All QBs have an equal 5 INTs. He has more yards than Cutler and Sanchez, both in the air and on the ground. If he did not have those couple of TDs dropped earlier in the season, he'd be even with Cutler on TDs and ahead on Rating, the only two categories he's not leading. The 3 INTs vs. TB is not typical Campbell play, as he's usually one of the best QBs in the NFL at NOT throwing INTs. That performance will be an anomaly this season and he'll finish with far less INTs thrown than the other two QBs we're comparing. Also, despite a weak-looking stat line, he led all three QBs in production in Week 4. Against the same Lions team, Cambell had 200 MORE YARDS than Cutler.

I am sure the JC haters will totally ignore this..lol. Only way they wont hate is if we win the Suepr Bowl. Then they still might hate..lol. All they will say is he is a horrible QB. He sucks. Blah blah blah. The will totally dismiss stats. I think DS and Vinny created this monster by their offseason antics. Which shoulnd't have happened unless they were absolutely sure tehy were getting one of these QBs which in my opinion are not that much better than Campbell if they are at all. But people will hate JC regardless...

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Buster

UPDATED stats/assessment:

Cutler:
WK 4 - 18/28 (64.3%), 141 yds, 2 TD, 0 INTS, 100.4 rating, 8 rush yds
TOTAL: 83/129 (64.3%), 901 yds, 8 TD, 5 INT, 89.3 rating, 22 rush yds

Sanchez:
WK 4 - 14/27 (51.9%), 138 yds, 0 TD, 3 INT, 27.0 rating, 24 rush yds
TOTAL: 63/110 (57.3%), 744 yds, 4 TD, 5 INT, 71.2 rating, 38 rush yds

Campbell:
WK 4 - 12/22 (54.5%), 170 yds, 2 TD, 3 INT, 70.5 rating, 20 rush yds
TOTAL: 81/124 (65.3%), 963 yds, 5 TD, 5 INT, 85.5 rating, 85 rush yds


Ranks:
Comp. % = Campell, Cutler, Sanchez
Yds = Campell (963), Cutler (901), Sanchez (744)
TDs = Cutler (8), Campbell (5), Sanchez (4)
INTs = Campbell/Cutler/Sanchez (5 ea)
QB rating = Cutler (89.3), Campbell (85.5), Sanchez (71.2)
Rush yds = Campbell (85), Sanchez(38), Cutler (22)


Campbell, despite tehe bad half in the TB game, is still leading all three QBs in most categories. All QBs have an equal 5 INTs. He has more yards than Cutler and Sanchez, both in the air and on the ground. If he did not have those couple of TDs dropped earlier in the season, he'd be even with Cutler on TDs and ahead on Rating, the only two categories he's not leading. The 3 INTs vs. TB is not typical Campbell play, as he's usually one of the best QBs in the NFL at NOT throwing INTs. That performance will be an anomaly this season and he'll finish with far less INTs thrown than the other two QBs we're comparing. Also, despite a weak-looking stat line, he led all three QBs in production in Week 4. Against the same Lions team, Cambell had 200 MORE YARDS than Cutler.

Thank you for posting this and please keep doing it! While I think it's completely pointless to continue to worry/talk about 2 QB who never were and never will be Redskins, some people refuse to let it go so I'd love to keep shutting them up with facts!

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Buster

UPDATED stats/assessment:

Cutler:
WK 4 - 18/28 (64.3%), 141 yds, 2 TD, 0 INTS, 100.4 rating, 8 rush yds
TOTAL: 83/129 (64.3%), 901 yds, 8 TD, 5 INT, 89.3 rating, 22 rush yds

Sanchez:
WK 4 - 14/27 (51.9%), 138 yds, 0 TD, 3 INT, 27.0 rating, 24 rush yds
TOTAL: 63/110 (57.3%), 744 yds, 4 TD, 5 INT, 71.2 rating, 38 rush yds

Campbell:
WK 4 - 12/22 (54.5%), 170 yds, 2 TD, 3 INT, 70.5 rating, 20 rush yds
TOTAL: 81/124 (65.3%), 963 yds, 5 TD, 5 INT, 85.5 rating, 85 rush yds


Ranks:
Comp. % = Campell, Cutler, Sanchez
Yds = Campell (963), Cutler (901), Sanchez (744)
TDs = Cutler (8), Campbell (5), Sanchez (4)
INTs = Campbell/Cutler/Sanchez (5 ea)
QB rating = Cutler (89.3), Campbell (85.5), Sanchez (71.2)
Rush yds = Campbell (85), Sanchez(38), Cutler (22)


Campbell, despite tehe bad half in the TB game, is still leading all three QBs in most categories. All QBs have an equal 5 INTs. He has more yards than Cutler and Sanchez, both in the air and on the ground. If he did not have those couple of TDs dropped earlier in the season, he'd be even with Cutler on TDs and ahead on Rating, the only two categories he's not leading. The 3 INTs vs. TB is not typical Campbell play, as he's usually one of the best QBs in the NFL at NOT throwing INTs. That performance will be an anomaly this season and he'll finish with far less INTs thrown than the other two QBs we're comparing. Also, despite a weak-looking stat line, he led all three QBs in production in Week 4. Against the same Lions team, Cambell had 200 MORE YARDS than Cutler.

Does any of this stuff really matter? Jay Cutler is the best QB out of the 3 and I don't need stats to tell me that. I mean who are Cutler's wr's? His wr's are worse than ours. Sanchez is a freakin rookie so I expect JC to play better. JC forced some balls yesterday. BIG DEAL. I'm kinda glad that he's taking more chances. Hopefully on plays like the Kelly INT our WR's will FIGHT FOR THE BALL. Is it me or does Kelly suck at the lob passes.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Does any of this stuff really matter? Jay Cutler is the best QB out of the 3 and I don't need stats to tell me that. I mean who are Cutler's wr's? His wr's are worse than ours. Sanchez is a freakin rookie so I expect JC to play better. JC forced some balls yesterday. BIG DEAL. I'm kinda glad that he's taking more chances. Hopefully on plays like the Kelly INT our WR's will FIGHT FOR THE BALL. Is it me or does Kelly suck at the lob passes.

Cutler is better because your heart tells you so? Nice.

[dgack]

Originally Posted by Buster

Cutler is better because your heart tells you so? Nice.

No, he's better than Campbell because he's won exactly one more game than Jason in his pro quarterbacking career.

BTW, I'm totally using this metric in the offseason. Let's begin the "Orakpo and Fletcher for Kyle Orton" trade scenarios now.

Orton is a proven winner, and as everyone knows, if we just had a proven winning QB here we'd be a Super Bowl contender.

[dmvskinzfan08]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Does any of this stuff really matter? Jay Cutler is the best QB out of the 3 and I don't need stats to tell me that. I mean who are Cutler's wr's? His wr's are worse than ours. Sanchez is a freakin rookie so I expect JC to play better. JC forced some balls yesterday. BIG DEAL. I'm kinda glad that he's taking more chances. Hopefully on plays like the Kelly INT our WR's will FIGHT FOR THE BALL. Is it me or does Kelly suck at the lob passes.

I totally respect this post!! Yes Kelly does. He is at best a possession receiver. But he is not a second recevier. Sorry guys but neither is Thomas. Who does that leave us with? ARE and Mitchell? But ARE is better in the slot from what I've heard. So why not use Mitchell as the no. 2 receiver? Why because he wasn't drafted in the second round like the other two busts. They have showed nothing. No more than they did last year. Very sad. The analysis before the season started was that one of them needs to step up for us to be successful. Eh em!! But neither has. Draw your own conclusions on that statement. NO one is bringing that point up as frequently as they are hating on JC. I wouldn't trust those two either. Put Thomas ass on punts sometimes and move Mitchell up to the 2nd spot. Or is that too far fetched? All he did was catch touchdowns this preseason. He would have definitely made a better play on that ball than Kelly. While we are on the subject of changing depth charts. Let Mason run the ball as CP's back up. People say CP is done. But Betts at 30 is really done (is he even averaging 1 yard per carry?). He offers nothing unique to the team. AT ALL!!!!

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Does any of this stuff really matter? Jay Cutler is the best QB out of the 3 and I don't need stats to tell me that. I mean who are Cutler's wr's? His wr's are worse than ours. Sanchez is a freakin rookie so I expect JC to play better. JC forced some balls yesterday. BIG DEAL. I'm kinda glad that he's taking more chances. Hopefully on plays like the Kelly INT our WR's will FIGHT FOR THE BALL. Is it me or does Kelly suck at the lob passes.

I agree. That pass to Kelly is a basic, meat and potatoes play that even average Offenses utilize. I think 1 out of 10 times that ball gets picked and 9 out of 10 it's caught or it's an incompletion. I hope they keep going to it and even start to throw those balls behind the receiver on timing plays. Because we didn't play Kelly last year, he's essentially going through his rookie season. Keep throwing to him, and he'll get better.

If not, Campbell can pull a Brunell and throw to Moss to the tune of 1500 yards and sprinkle in some Cooley. Regardless, there's no excuse for being one of the 3 worst Offenses in the league. Other teams have shitty receivers and still manage to put points on the board. Our Offense is just bad across the board.

[dgack]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

Regardless, there's no excuse for being one of the 3 worst Offenses in the league.

Agreed 100%!! Which is why I'm glad there is no objective quantifiable measurement available which ranks us "one of the 3 worst Offenses in the league".

[scowan]

Granted I am watching the broadcast at home and not at the game, so some of you actually at the game yesterday please correct me if I am wrong, but I watch JC go back to pass (again I can't see what is going on down the field on TV) and I see reasonable protection and JC holding the ball along time. To my earlier statement, is that JC's fault? or again are guys not getting open and separating themselves from the defenders?
I saw a lot of promise from Marko Mitchell in Preseason. Is that because he was going against inferior CBs or because he can separate from defenders? We know Cooley can find open space and Moss can just flat burn you, but Kelly and Thomas can not create their own separation for some reason. Am I wrong on that? Please someone respond who was at the game and could watch the secondary all day.

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by scowan

Granted I am watching the broadcast at home and not at the game, so some of you actually at the game yesterday please correct me if I am wrong, but I watch JC go back to pass (again I can't see what is going on down the field on TV) and I see reasonable protection and JC holding the ball along time. To my earlier statement, is that JC's fault? or again are guys not getting open and separating themselves from the defenders?
I saw a lot of promise from Marko Mitchell in Preseason. Is that because he was going against inferior CBs or because he can separate from defenders? We know Cooley can find open space and Moss can just flat burn you, but Kelly and Thomas can not create their own separation for some reason. Am I wrong on that? Please someone respond who was at the game and could watch the secondary all day.

You are 100% correct. There is no timing to Campbell's game. That is actually nothing new, it has been the case all year. Good NFL QBs make throws into tight windows, on rhythm, and with anticipation. Guys who are not good NFL QBs do not get a clear picture at the snap, lack good timing and anticipation, hold the ball too long, and flush themselves by being unable to pull the trigger. They can make throws to open receivers, and certainly Campbell can do that, but really do not give receivers an opportunity to make plays.

You are also correct in saying that without the All-22 and access to the Redskins game plan it is difficult to properly break down the performance of an NFL quarterback. But we have a large enough sample size at this point to say that Campbell's deficiencies are not simply a product of great coverage/poor receiver play. He is a back-up NFL quarterback because he is unable to quickly identify coverages and make throws into tight windows. Guys who actually do break down coaches tape (i.e. Greg Cosell and Ron Jaworski - not to mention the Redskins own personnel department) have all seen the same thing that you and I are seeing just by watching the TV broadcast. You are not going to get great separation in the NFL from your receivers, at least not often, and what separates good quarterbacks from marginal guys is the ability to diagnosis coverages, anticipate routes, and throw into tight windows.

What is so frustrating about Campbell is that he has NFL tools, particularly with his arm, but he does not do any of the other things necessary to be a good NFL quarterback. I thought he did and thought the Redskins should take the opportunity to find out if he really did this season http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-l...tml#post557863. I think we have now seen enough, against very bad NFL defenses, to answer the question.

But Ruh and DMV will just shout down rationale posts based upon actually watching the games and thinking about what determines good NFL quarterback play and just call it "hating." Far from it though. I am addressing the reality that has shown itself on the field in every game this season. It was as evident in Detroit as it was against Tampa, the difference was in the statistical outcome, but the same deficiencies were present.

[dmvskinzfan08]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

You are 100% correct. There is no timing to Campbell's game. That is actually nothing new, it has been the case all year. Good NFL QBs make throws into tight windows, on rhythm, and with anticipation. Guys who are not good NFL QBs do not get a clear picture at the snap, lack good timing and anticipation, hold the ball too long, and flush themselves by being unable to pull the trigger. They can make throws to open receivers, and certainly Campbell can do that, but really do not give receivers an opportunity to make plays.

You are also correct in saying that without the All-22 and access to the Redskins game plan it is difficult to properly break down the performance of an NFL quarterback. But we have a large enough sample size at this point to say that Campbell's deficiencies are not simply a product of great coverage/poor receiver play. He is a back-up NFL quarterback because he is unable to quickly identify coverages and make throws into tight windows. Guys who actually do break down coaches tape (i.e. Greg Cosell and Ron Jaworski - not to mention the Redskins own personnel department) have all seen the same thing that you and I are seeing just by watching the TV broadcast. You are not going to get great separation in the NFL from your receivers, at least not often, and what separates good quarterbacks from marginal guys is the ability to diagnosis coverages, anticipate routes, and throw into tight windows.

What is so frustrating about Campbell is that he has NFL tools, particularly with his arm, but he does not do any of the other things necessary to be a good NFL quarterback. I thought he did and thought the Redskins should take the opportunity to find out if he really did this season http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-l...tml#post557863. I think we have now seen enough, against very bad NFL defenses, to answer the question.

But Ruh and DMV will just shout down rationale posts based upon actually watching the games and thinking about what determines good NFL quarterback play and just call it "hating." Far from it though. I am addressing the reality that has shown itself on the field in every game this season. It was as evident in Detroit as it was against Tampa, the difference was in the statistical outcome, but the same deficiencies were present.

When I saw your Avatar title - JC equals David Garrad you lost all credibility.

To add to you trying to call me out. I watch the games and watch them closely. When JC plays bad I say he plays bad. But I am not going to sit and hate all the time and not give him credit when he has a decent game. We are level headed and know that it is a combination of things. The o-line, the running game, lack of a second WR, play calling -- all of that. We dont claim JC is Peyton Manning or the "untouchable" Brady. What we claim is people love to hate but rarely congratulate. You are a perfect example of this. So if you think JC is the only reason we are struggling you obviously are not watching the games close enough. As far as the sentence I highlighted that may be true. But in the end we won the game despite those defficiencies -- he battled back and helped us win the game. You are not a hater because you have a opinion. You are a hater because all you do is hate!!

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by dmvskinzfan08

When I saw your Avatar title - JC equals David Garrad you lost all credibility.

To add to you trying to call me out. I watch the games and watch them closely. When JC plays bad I say he plays bad. But I am not going to sit and hate all the time and not give him credit when he has a decent game. We are level headed and know that it is a combination of things. The o-line, the running game, lack of a second WR, play calling -- all of that. We dont claim JC is Peyton Manning or the "untouchable" Brady. What we claim is people love to hate but rarely congratulate. You are a perfect example of this. So if you think JC is the only reason we are struggling you obviously are not watching the games close enough. As far as the sentence I highlighted that may be true. But in the end we won the game despite those defficiencies -- he battled back and helped us win the game. You are not a hater because you have a opinion. You are a hater because all you do is hate!!

Almost wholly inaccurate. But you are correct in at least one point, I can see that you are very ready/willing to jump ship on Campbell when the going gets tough. http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-l...tml#post601374

Look, he put in a gutty performance in a tough situation. That shows great character and toughness, very admirable qualities. I do not question that. But that does not mean he does not have significant flaws as an NFL quarterback. I'm very willing to lay the blame on the Redskins for messing up his development, but where you lay the blame does not change the outcome.

[DBUCHANON101]

Originally Posted by dmvskinzfan08

When I saw your Avatar title - JC equals David Garrad you lost all credibility.

To add to you trying to call me out. I watch the games and watch them closely. When JC plays bad I say he plays bad. But I am not going to sit and hate all the time and not give him credit when he has a decent game. We are level headed and know that it is a combination of things. The o-line, the running game, lack of a second WR, play calling -- all of that. We dont claim JC is Peyton Manning or the "untouchable" Brady. What we claim is people love to hate but rarely congratulate. You are a perfect example of this. So if you think JC is the only reason we are struggling you obviously are not watching the games close enough. As far as the sentence I highlighted that may be true. But in the end we won the game despite those defficiencies -- he battled back and helped us win the game. You are not a hater because you have a opinion. You are a hater because all you do is hate!!

How are they different? To this point they both have the same td's but Garrard has only thrown 1 pick. Both are 2-2. IMO Neither really is a step better than the other so id say thats a fair comparison.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by dmvskinzfan08

When I saw your Avatar title - JC equals David Garrad you lost all credibility.

To add to you trying to call me out. I watch the games and watch them closely. When JC plays bad I say he plays bad. But I am not going to sit and hate all the time and not give him credit when he has a decent game. We are level headed and know that it is a combination of things. The o-line, the running game, lack of a second WR, play calling -- all of that. We dont claim JC is Peyton Manning or the "untouchable" Brady. What we claim is people love to hate but rarely congratulate. You are a perfect example of this. So if you think JC is the only reason we are struggling you obviously are not watching the games close enough. As far as the sentence I highlighted that may be true. But in the end we won the game despite those defficiencies -- he battled back and helped us win the game. You are not a hater because you have a opinion. You are a hater because all you do is hate!!

To be honest, I am sick of hearing the term hater. Hate is a pretty strong emotion, too strong for someone to feel towards a NFL QB. Hate is a very strong dislike of someone on a personal level, The purest form of hate is murder. I highly doubt anyone in this forum wants to see any harm to JC or even mildly dislike the guy. The question at hand, or rather the debate is whether or not JC's deficiencies are entirely or mostly on his supporting cast. Some seem to think so, some don't. For those who don't, to call them a hater is ridiculous. I think JC has been screwed around so much that he is ruined in terms of being an effective starting QB, just like Spurrier killed off Ramsey's career by throwing him to the wolves in a half assed offensive scheme. JC lacks the intangible fundamentals of a true successful starting NFL QB that our fellow Warpath compadre has rather effectively interated. With the various OC changes and new schemes the kid could never get totally comfortable to boot. JC shows almost the exact same thing folks complained about Ramsey in holding the ball to long, etc. We all know what Gibbs did to Ramsey now don't we? Bottom line is calling someone a hater because he doesn't agree with you about a certain topic or a certain athlete is going overboard.