Campbell's numbers dont lie

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by scowan

Granted I am watching the broadcast at home and not at the game, so some of you actually at the game yesterday please correct me if I am wrong, but I watch JC go back to pass (again I can't see what is going on down the field on TV) and I see reasonable protection and JC holding the ball along time. To my earlier statement, is that JC's fault? or again are guys not getting open and separating themselves from the defenders?
I saw a lot of promise from Marko Mitchell in Preseason. Is that because he was going against inferior CBs or because he can separate from defenders? We know Cooley can find open space and Moss can just flat burn you, but Kelly and Thomas can not create their own separation for some reason. Am I wrong on that? Please someone respond who was at the game and could watch the secondary all day.

You are 100% correct. There is no timing to Campbell's game. That is actually nothing new, it has been the case all year. Good NFL QBs make throws into tight windows, on rhythm, and with anticipation. Guys who are not good NFL QBs do not get a clear picture at the snap, lack good timing and anticipation, hold the ball too long, and flush themselves by being unable to pull the trigger. They can make throws to open receivers, and certainly Campbell can do that, but really do not give receivers an opportunity to make plays.

You are also correct in saying that without the All-22 and access to the Redskins game plan it is difficult to properly break down the performance of an NFL quarterback. But we have a large enough sample size at this point to say that Campbell's deficiencies are not simply a product of great coverage/poor receiver play. He is a back-up NFL quarterback because he is unable to quickly identify coverages and make throws into tight windows. Guys who actually do break down coaches tape (i.e. Greg Cosell and Ron Jaworski - not to mention the Redskins own personnel department) have all seen the same thing that you and I are seeing just by watching the TV broadcast. You are not going to get great separation in the NFL from your receivers, at least not often, and what separates good quarterbacks from marginal guys is the ability to diagnosis coverages, anticipate routes, and throw into tight windows.

What is so frustrating about Campbell is that he has NFL tools, particularly with his arm, but he does not do any of the other things necessary to be a good NFL quarterback. I thought he did and thought the Redskins should take the opportunity to find out if he really did this season http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-l...tml#post557863. I think we have now seen enough, against very bad NFL defenses, to answer the question.

But Ruh and DMV will just shout down rationale posts based upon actually watching the games and thinking about what determines good NFL quarterback play and just call it "hating." Far from it though. I am addressing the reality that has shown itself on the field in every game this season. It was as evident in Detroit as it was against Tampa, the difference was in the statistical outcome, but the same deficiencies were present.

[dmvskinzfan08]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

You are 100% correct. There is no timing to Campbell's game. That is actually nothing new, it has been the case all year. Good NFL QBs make throws into tight windows, on rhythm, and with anticipation. Guys who are not good NFL QBs do not get a clear picture at the snap, lack good timing and anticipation, hold the ball too long, and flush themselves by being unable to pull the trigger. They can make throws to open receivers, and certainly Campbell can do that, but really do not give receivers an opportunity to make plays.

You are also correct in saying that without the All-22 and access to the Redskins game plan it is difficult to properly break down the performance of an NFL quarterback. But we have a large enough sample size at this point to say that Campbell's deficiencies are not simply a product of great coverage/poor receiver play. He is a back-up NFL quarterback because he is unable to quickly identify coverages and make throws into tight windows. Guys who actually do break down coaches tape (i.e. Greg Cosell and Ron Jaworski - not to mention the Redskins own personnel department) have all seen the same thing that you and I are seeing just by watching the TV broadcast. You are not going to get great separation in the NFL from your receivers, at least not often, and what separates good quarterbacks from marginal guys is the ability to diagnosis coverages, anticipate routes, and throw into tight windows.

What is so frustrating about Campbell is that he has NFL tools, particularly with his arm, but he does not do any of the other things necessary to be a good NFL quarterback. I thought he did and thought the Redskins should take the opportunity to find out if he really did this season http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-l...tml#post557863. I think we have now seen enough, against very bad NFL defenses, to answer the question.

But Ruh and DMV will just shout down rationale posts based upon actually watching the games and thinking about what determines good NFL quarterback play and just call it "hating." Far from it though. I am addressing the reality that has shown itself on the field in every game this season. It was as evident in Detroit as it was against Tampa, the difference was in the statistical outcome, but the same deficiencies were present.

When I saw your Avatar title - JC equals David Garrad you lost all credibility.

To add to you trying to call me out. I watch the games and watch them closely. When JC plays bad I say he plays bad. But I am not going to sit and hate all the time and not give him credit when he has a decent game. We are level headed and know that it is a combination of things. The o-line, the running game, lack of a second WR, play calling -- all of that. We dont claim JC is Peyton Manning or the "untouchable" Brady. What we claim is people love to hate but rarely congratulate. You are a perfect example of this. So if you think JC is the only reason we are struggling you obviously are not watching the games close enough. As far as the sentence I highlighted that may be true. But in the end we won the game despite those defficiencies -- he battled back and helped us win the game. You are not a hater because you have a opinion. You are a hater because all you do is hate!!

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by dmvskinzfan08

When I saw your Avatar title - JC equals David Garrad you lost all credibility.

To add to you trying to call me out. I watch the games and watch them closely. When JC plays bad I say he plays bad. But I am not going to sit and hate all the time and not give him credit when he has a decent game. We are level headed and know that it is a combination of things. The o-line, the running game, lack of a second WR, play calling -- all of that. We dont claim JC is Peyton Manning or the "untouchable" Brady. What we claim is people love to hate but rarely congratulate. You are a perfect example of this. So if you think JC is the only reason we are struggling you obviously are not watching the games close enough. As far as the sentence I highlighted that may be true. But in the end we won the game despite those defficiencies -- he battled back and helped us win the game. You are not a hater because you have a opinion. You are a hater because all you do is hate!!

Almost wholly inaccurate. But you are correct in at least one point, I can see that you are very ready/willing to jump ship on Campbell when the going gets tough. http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-l...tml#post601374

Look, he put in a gutty performance in a tough situation. That shows great character and toughness, very admirable qualities. I do not question that. But that does not mean he does not have significant flaws as an NFL quarterback. I'm very willing to lay the blame on the Redskins for messing up his development, but where you lay the blame does not change the outcome.

[dmvskinzfan08]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

Almost wholly inaccurate. But you are correct in at least one point, I can see that you are very ready/willing to jump ship on Campbell when the going gets tough. http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-l...tml#post601374

Look, he put in a gutty performance in a tough situation. That shows great character and toughness, very admirable qualities. I do not question that. But that does not mean he does not have significant flaws as an NFL quarterback. I'm very willing to lay the blame on the Redskins for messing up his development, but where you lay the blame does not change the outcome.

Like I said. When he is doing bad I will say so. So that tells you I am not always on his side. So you are proving my point better than yours. At that point in the game it was the first half and he came back and made up for his mistakes which I said an earlier post. If he had continued playing that way in the second half and didn't bring us back. I would have still felt the way I did in the first half. So dig some more...

Sure you dont work for Snyder? Seems like most of your posts are about merchandising..lol.. The Warpath

[DBUCHANON101]

Originally Posted by dmvskinzfan08

When I saw your Avatar title - JC equals David Garrad you lost all credibility.

To add to you trying to call me out. I watch the games and watch them closely. When JC plays bad I say he plays bad. But I am not going to sit and hate all the time and not give him credit when he has a decent game. We are level headed and know that it is a combination of things. The o-line, the running game, lack of a second WR, play calling -- all of that. We dont claim JC is Peyton Manning or the "untouchable" Brady. What we claim is people love to hate but rarely congratulate. You are a perfect example of this. So if you think JC is the only reason we are struggling you obviously are not watching the games close enough. As far as the sentence I highlighted that may be true. But in the end we won the game despite those defficiencies -- he battled back and helped us win the game. You are not a hater because you have a opinion. You are a hater because all you do is hate!!

How are they different? To this point they both have the same td's but Garrard has only thrown 1 pick. Both are 2-2. IMO Neither really is a step better than the other so id say thats a fair comparison.

[dmvskinzfan08]

Originally Posted by DBUCHANON101

How are they different? To this point they both have the same td's but Garrard has only thrown 1 pick. Both are 2-2. IMO Neither really is a step better than the other so id say thats a fair comparison.

So they are the same because they both are 2-2? You need more to go on than just they are both are 2-2. If you said that they both didn't throw many ints the first year they were starters I would say okay. Garrard started off being more of a runner than JC was. But if the criteria above is all you have to go by. So 5td-1int is the same as 5tds-5int? You lose your credibility too. The only other thing they have in common is...

:cool-smil

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by dmvskinzfan08

So they are the same because they both are 2-2? You need more to go on than just they are both are 2-2. If you said that they both didn't throw many ints the first year they were starters I would say okay. Garrard started off being more of a runner than JC was. But if the criteria above is all you have to go by. So 5td-1int is the same as 5tds-5int? You lose your credibility too. The only other thing they have in common is...

:cool-smil

http://www.thewarpath.net/nfl-draft-...tml#post595312

[dmvskinzfan08]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

http://www.thewarpath.net/nfl-draft-...tml#post595312

You proved my point again. Not that you weren't a supporter of Campbell at one point in time. But by your means of comparison.

Doesn't mean I dont agree with you on some points but its just seems as though you are making JC the sole problem in this offense when it is a multitude of things.

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by dmvskinzfan08

You proved my point again. Not that you weren't a supporter of Campbell at one point in time. But by your means of comparison.

Doesn't mean I dont agree with you on some points but its just seems as though you are making JC the sole problem in this offense when it is a multitude of things.

One the first point (bolded), I have no idea what you mean. On the second point, that is just you reading something into what I am saying that I have never said at all. The fact that Campbell is not the "answer" at quarterback and lacks the skills to be a very good/elite player at the position does not mean that he is the only problem with the offense. I have never said he was the sole problem or replacing him would represent a cure-all. I am, however, trying to be realistic in my evaluation of him as an NFL passer. I find him lacking in the essential characteristics (i.e. ability to quickly process information, play with timing/anticipation) that are necessary for consistent success at the position.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

http://www.thewarpath.net/nfl-draft-...tml#post595312

Well at least you're not wishing for the team to do badly.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by dmvskinzfan08

When I saw your Avatar title - JC equals David Garrad you lost all credibility.

To add to you trying to call me out. I watch the games and watch them closely. When JC plays bad I say he plays bad. But I am not going to sit and hate all the time and not give him credit when he has a decent game. We are level headed and know that it is a combination of things. The o-line, the running game, lack of a second WR, play calling -- all of that. We dont claim JC is Peyton Manning or the "untouchable" Brady. What we claim is people love to hate but rarely congratulate. You are a perfect example of this. So if you think JC is the only reason we are struggling you obviously are not watching the games close enough. As far as the sentence I highlighted that may be true. But in the end we won the game despite those defficiencies -- he battled back and helped us win the game. You are not a hater because you have a opinion. You are a hater because all you do is hate!!

To be honest, I am sick of hearing the term hater. Hate is a pretty strong emotion, too strong for someone to feel towards a NFL QB. Hate is a very strong dislike of someone on a personal level, The purest form of hate is murder. I highly doubt anyone in this forum wants to see any harm to JC or even mildly dislike the guy. The question at hand, or rather the debate is whether or not JC's deficiencies are entirely or mostly on his supporting cast. Some seem to think so, some don't. For those who don't, to call them a hater is ridiculous. I think JC has been screwed around so much that he is ruined in terms of being an effective starting QB, just like Spurrier killed off Ramsey's career by throwing him to the wolves in a half assed offensive scheme. JC lacks the intangible fundamentals of a true successful starting NFL QB that our fellow Warpath compadre has rather effectively interated. With the various OC changes and new schemes the kid could never get totally comfortable to boot. JC shows almost the exact same thing folks complained about Ramsey in holding the ball to long, etc. We all know what Gibbs did to Ramsey now don't we? Bottom line is calling someone a hater because he doesn't agree with you about a certain topic or a certain athlete is going overboard.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

To be honest, I am sick of hearing the term hater. Hate is a pretty strong emotion, too strong for someone to feel towards a NFL QB.

Well given that you bring up Gus Frerotte in what seems to be every one of your posts, I would say that you have too strong emotions for an average QB.

[DBUCHANON101]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Well given that you bring up Gus Frerotte in what seems to be every one of your posts, I would say that you have too strong emotions for an average QB.

Isnt that what we have now?? and ppl have similiar emotions for him.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by DBUCHANON101

Isnt that what we have now?? and ppl have similiar emotions for him.

I will guarantee you that a couple of years from now, I doubt anyone would have any "emotions" for Campbell.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by DBUCHANON101

Isnt that what we have now?? and ppl have similiar emotions for him.

Well, he's the current quarterback of the team. Maybe he is just another Frerotte. There's nothing wrong with that. Coming out of the Redskins development system, it takes pretty impressive character to hang around as long as Frerotte or Ramsey did.

Still if we win any games in the short term, it's going to be more because of Campbell than in spite of him.