Redskins hire offensive consultant

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

That Zorn had two years to succeed?

No, that Cerrato did. Cerrato said Snyder was giving him two years in his current role. After that, he'd be removed from his current position (and in my opinion, move to some other, non-operational aspect of the franchise).

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Listening to ESPN980 right now and two really really interesting points were made:

1) If the skins have success, then Sherman Lewis, not Jim Zorn, will get all the credit.

2) - and this one's much more interesting. They replayed the last portion of Cerratos conference call with the media yesterday about the hire. Cerrato was asked what Sherman Lewis had been doing for the past 5 years. Cerrato's answer was something along the lines of "uhhh, i'm not really sure. I know he hasn't been coaching. uhhh, his son's the defensive coordinator at Michigan. Ok, thats it." Now, there are two possibilities which explain Cerratos response.

Possibility 1) Cerrato and Snyder didn't do a lick of due diligence before bringing in Lewis. They wikipedia'd "West Coast Offense" and his name came up, so they called him.

Possibility 2) Getting Lewis wasn't Cerratos idea (and it certainly wasn't Snyders because he's probably never even herad of the guy before). If it wasn't Cerrato's idea, then someone else told him to bring Sherman in. To me, this is almost complete confirmation that Holmgren told Cerrato to bring Sherman in, because Holmgren plans on taking over this team, if not midseason, then at the end of the year.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Listening to ESPN980 right now and two really really interesting points were made:

1) If the skins have success, then Sherman Lewis, not Jim Zorn, will get all the credit.

2) - and this one's much more interesting. They replayed the last portion of Cerratos conference call with the media yesterday about the hire. Cerrato was asked what Sherman Lewis had been doing for the past 5 years. Cerrato's answer was something along the lines of "uhhh, i'm not really sure. I know he hasn't been coaching. uhhh, his son's the defensive coordinator at Michigan. Ok, thats it." Now, there are two possibilities which explain Cerratos response.

Possibility 1) Cerrato and Snyder didn't do a lick of due diligence before bringing in Lewis. They wikipedia'd "West Coast Offense" and his name came up, so they called him.

Possibility 2) Getting Lewis wasn't Cerratos idea (and it certainly wasn't Snyders because he's probably never even herad of the guy before). If it wasn't Cerrato's idea, then someone else told him to bring Sherman in. To me, this is almost complete confirmation that Holmgren told Cerrato to bring Sherman in, because Holmgren plans on taking over this team, if not midseason, then at the end of the year.

Nothing negative about it, but this thread is in offseason form. LOL.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Listening to ESPN980 right now and two really really interesting points were made:

1) If the skins have success, then Sherman Lewis, not Jim Zorn, will get all the credit.

2) - and this one's much more interesting. They replayed the last portion of Cerratos conference call with the media yesterday about the hire. Cerrato was asked what Sherman Lewis had been doing for the past 5 years. Cerrato's answer was something along the lines of "uhhh, i'm not really sure. I know he hasn't been coaching. uhhh, his son's the defensive coordinator at Michigan. Ok, thats it." Now, there are two possibilities which explain Cerratos response.

Possibility 1) Cerrato and Snyder didn't do a lick of due diligence before bringing in Lewis. They wikipedia'd "West Coast Offense" and his name came up, so they called him.

Possibility 2) Getting Lewis wasn't Cerratos idea (and it certainly wasn't Snyders because he's probably never even herad of the guy before). If it wasn't Cerrato's idea, then someone else told him to bring Sherman in. To me, this is almost complete confirmation that Holmgren told Cerrato to bring Sherman in, because Holmgren plans on taking over this team, if not midseason, then at the end of the year.

Possibility 3) Cerrato told Zorn that having a quality control guy on offense would be a good idea. He then asked Zorn who a good choice for the job would be. Zorn said, "Sherman Lewis."

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Possibility 3) Cerrato told Zorn that having a quality control guy on offense would be a good idea. He then asked Zorn who a good choice for the job would be. Zorn said, "Sherman Lewis."

Reading Zorn's comments, it's obvious he doesn't like the idea of someone else being here or think its necessary, so i HIGHLY doubt possibility 3.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Possibility 3) Cerrato told Zorn that having a quality control guy on offense would be a good idea. He then asked Zorn who a good choice for the job would be. Zorn said, "Sherman Lewis."

Well that's just crazy Lotus. There's no behind the scenes intrigue in that. That is pretty much what has been reported and is probably what's going on. Zorn didn't ask for help but it was something the FO wanted to do. A list of names were put forth and Zorn agreed with Lewis since he knows the WCO so well and both are familiar with the same terminology having both worked with Holmgren. Like I posted before, businessmen do this all the time and Snyder has ran this team like one of his other business'es since he's owned the team. Vinny was in SF when they did it and probably thought it was a good idea. Not as much cloak and dagger as people like but probably all there is to it.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Listening to ESPN980 right now and two really really interesting points were made:

1) If the skins have success, then Sherman Lewis, not Jim Zorn, will get all the credit.

2) - and this one's much more interesting. They replayed the last portion of Cerratos conference call with the media yesterday about the hire. Cerrato was asked what Sherman Lewis had been doing for the past 5 years. Cerrato's answer was something along the lines of "uhhh, i'm not really sure. I know he hasn't been coaching. uhhh, his son's the defensive coordinator at Michigan. Ok, thats it." Now, there are two possibilities which explain Cerratos response.

Possibility 1) Cerrato and Snyder didn't do a lick of due diligence before bringing in Lewis. They wikipedia'd "West Coast Offense" and his name came up, so they called him.

Possibility 2) Getting Lewis wasn't Cerratos idea (and it certainly wasn't Snyders because he's probably never even herad of the guy before). If it wasn't Cerrato's idea, then someone else told him to bring Sherman in. To me, this is almost complete confirmation that Holmgren told Cerrato to bring Sherman in, because Holmgren plans on taking over this team, if not midseason, then at the end of the year.

1) Of course he(Lewis) will. It will look like either he(Lewis) fixed the problems that Zorn could not fix or he(Lewis) could not fix what mess Zorn created. In either case Zorn has had 1 full yr to get his feet wet, get to know the talent on the team, know how best to use them, and call the right plays. Now is that enough time ...obviously not for a 1st yr ever HC.

2) If it was Cerrato's idea and his game plan I guarentee you he would have had enough information as to why he did it and what Lewis was doing and how he could help the team. Someone who gets on and muddles his way through a press confrence and can't answer those types of questions certainly didn't come up with the plan and quite possibly doesn't like the plan but is doing it cause his boss wants it that way.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

No, that Cerrato did. Cerrato said Snyder was giving him two years in his current role. After that, he'd be removed from his current position (and in my opinion, move to some other, non-operational aspect of the franchise).

Yeah, well I mean I've been saying for a while now that within the next couple of years VC will probably move to a more "executive" position (even more so than now). Although that could always change of course, depending on the coaching situation.

But anyway, I know that Jay Glazer (or maybe it was Peter King?) said that Cerrato told him that he and the new head coach would have two years to turn things around or they'd be gone...but that's also the way Cerrato tends to talk sometimes. I don't believe he ever actually said Snyder said they would be fired.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Yeah, well I mean I've been saying for a while now that within the next couple of years VC will probably move to a more "executive" position (even more so than now). Although that could always change of course, depending on the coaching situation.

But anyway, I know that Jay Glazer (or maybe it was Peter King?) said that Cerrato told him that he and the new head coach would have two years to turn things around or they'd be gone...but that's also the way Cerrato tends to talk sometimes. I don't believe he ever actually said Snyder said they would be fired.

Well, ultimately, I don't think Cerrato, himself, is a problem. I think he's a good talent evaluator. The problem is, Snyder's got his hand in things and Cerrato either lacks the balls or the authority to veto Snyder on certain personnel moves.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Well, ultimately, I don't think Cerrato, himself, is a problem. I think he's a good talent evaluator. The problem is, Snyder's got his hand in things and Cerrato either lacks the balls or the authority to veto Snyder on certain personnel moves.

You know, you make a really interesting point about Cerrato as a talent evaluator. If you look at his 2 drafts where he's had complete control he's made two OBVIOUS mistakes (Durant Brooks, Fred Davis) but he also brought in some players who can contribute for the next 4-5 years in Kelly, Kareem Moore, Chris Horton, Chad Rinehart, Justin Tryon, Brian Orapko, Jeremy Jarmon, Marko Mitchell, Kevin Barnes..

I don't think he's very good at assembling a team or self scouting and making decisions based on need. I also think he over inflates the value of some players and over drafts based on that (Davis, Rinehart, Tryon, possibly Barnes). That doesn't mean they won't be good and productive players, but maybe were picked ahead of other players that may have been more productive.

I think he had a 3 year plan to fix problem areas from the Gibbs era (receivers year one, defensive line year two, offensive line year three). I don't think he thought the OL would deteriorate as rapidly as they did because it was (at the end of '07) the best performing unit out of the three mentioned. If he's in place to handle the '10 draft I'd expect him to draft 3 linemen, a RB and a LB (based on what we do in FA) which would then round out his plan.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

You know, you make a really interesting point about Cerrato as a talent evaluator. If you look at his 2 drafts where he's had complete control he's made two OBVIOUS mistakes (Durant Brooks, Fred Davis)

I don't think Fred is/was a mistake. He will eventually produce, I'm waiting for him Kelly and Thomas to also get of their butts. I think they will very soon.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

I don't think Fred is/was a mistake. He will eventually produce, I'm waiting for him Kelly and Thomas to also get of their butts. I think they will very soon.

I think regardless of his potential production, here's why I think he was a mistake. What's the best case scenario for his production with a healthy Cooley, 20 catches, 3 TD? That's not 2nd round production. The reason he was a mistake was where he was drafted in relation to other needs we had. We had a pro bowl TE already. I didn't have a problem with drafting Kelly and Thomas in the 2nd, but with that extra 2nd round pick a TE was an extreme luxury for a team with major needs at the time.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I think regardless of his potential production, here's why I think he was a mistake. What's the best case scenario for his production with a healthy Cooley, 20 catches, 3 TD? That's not 2nd round production. The reason he was a mistake was where he was drafted in relation to other needs we had. We had a pro bowl TE already. I didn't have a problem with drafting Kelly and Thomas in the 2nd, but with that extra 2nd round pick a TE was an extreme luxury for a team with major needs at the time.

True. Maybe in Vinny's eyes he was the best player available at that time.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I think regardless of his potential production, here's why I think he was a mistake. What's the best case scenario for his production with a healthy Cooley, 20 catches, 3 TD? That's not 2nd round production. The reason he was a mistake was where he was drafted in relation to other needs we had. We had a pro bowl TE already. I didn't have a problem with drafting Kelly and Thomas in the 2nd, but with that extra 2nd round pick a TE was an extreme luxury for a team with major needs at the time.

Lest we all for get, Cerrato doesn't pick for what the team needs he picks Best player Available. Which is why we have only a few lineman. and then the one DE we pick up has to be moved to SLB cause that is what our need was and he was the closest thing to it.

I don't man to knock Cerrato too much cause I do like Thomas, Kelly, and Davis but with out decent position coach's we get mediocracy and still with a need to inject life into our O-line.

I'll also say that I keep hearing how the O-line is not giving JC enough time to throw the ball....I think the O-line is. It's far fetched to think the O-line is going to give him 10 sec. or more to get the ball to someone. In most cases the QB only has 3-7 seconds. In most cases. Which is exactly what JC is getting. I think it has more to do with either the route running the WR's are doing, not getting seperation, or JC is actually so nervous back there he's not observing the whole field.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

You know, you make a really interesting point about Cerrato as a talent evaluator. If you look at his 2 drafts where he's had complete control he's made two OBVIOUS mistakes (Durant Brooks, Fred Davis) but he also brought in some players who can contribute for the next 4-5 years in Kelly, Kareem Moore, Chris Horton, Chad Rinehart, Justin Tryon, Brian Orapko, Jeremy Jarmon, Marko Mitchell, Kevin Barnes..

I don't think he's very good at assembling a team or self scouting and making decisions based on need. I also think he over inflates the value of some players and over drafts based on that (Davis, Rinehart, Tryon, possibly Barnes). That doesn't mean they won't be good and productive players, but maybe were picked ahead of other players that may have been more productive.

I think he had a 3 year plan to fix problem areas from the Gibbs era (receivers year one, defensive line year two, offensive line year three). I don't think he thought the OL would deteriorate as rapidly as they did because it was (at the end of '07) the best performing unit out of the three mentioned. If he's in place to handle the '10 draft I'd expect him to draft 3 linemen, a RB and a LB (based on what we do in FA) which would then round out his plan.

I don't think Durant Brooks was a bad decision at the time - it just didnt work out. I don't think Fred Davis is a bust, but I agree it was the dumbest move he's made in the draft in the past 2 years. As far as free agency goes, I think thats where Snyder generally gets more involved, so what we see has less to do with Cerrato and more to do with Snyder. The problem is, Cerrato will never have the kind of control he needs to judge him as a true GM in Washington.