It's a joy watching other teams play

[53Fan]

That was a great game to watch. Makes you realize even more how bad we look. Funny what you said about tearing down the offensive coaching staff Tripp, I was talking about the same thing today. I really think Zorn could be a good HC given some time, but I really don't see much in his assistants. Looks mostly like college guys who haven't done much in the NFL, or NFL coaches who have been promoted to positions they've never held. Our execution looks like shit and how much are these guys responsible for it? Of course the o-line, we know whose fault that is.

[GridIron26]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

That was a great game to watch. Makes you realize how even more how bad we look. Funny what you said about tearing down the offensive coaching staff Tripp, I was talking about the same thing today. I really think Zorn could be a good HC given some time, but I really don't see much in his assistants. Looks mostly like college guys who haven't done much in the NFL, or NFL coaches who have been promoted to positions they've never held.

Now, after you said that, I could see it as well.. I have always believed that Zorn has the potentials to be good head coach; but right now, I'm not so sure anymore..

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

That was a great game to watch. Makes you realize even more how bad we look. Funny what you said about tearing down the offensive coaching staff Tripp, I was talking about the same thing today. I really think Zorn could be a good HC given some time, but I really don't see much in his assistants. Looks mostly like college guys who haven't done much in the NFL, or NFL coaches who have been promoted to positions they've never held.

Get me my C4, it's time to blow up this team. LOL. One can only dream, no?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Get me my C4, it's time to blow up this team. LOL. One can only dream, no?

I do not believe in rebuilding. I believe in building. Teams should always be building, whether they are winning 3 games or 13.

There is never, ever a good reason to trade a 2nd round draft pick for a 34 year old superstar. Not ever.

Trading draft picks is fine, but with all the teams desperate to unload 4th and 5th year players near the end of their contracts for picks, you have to win every trade ever time.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

That was a great game to watch. Makes you realize even more how bad we look. Funny what you said about tearing down the offensive coaching staff Tripp, I was talking about the same thing today. I really think Zorn could be a good HC given some time, but I really don't see much in his assistants. Looks mostly like college guys who haven't done much in the NFL, or NFL coaches who have been promoted to positions they've never held. Our execution looks like shit and how much are these guys responsible for it? Of course the o-line, we know whose fault that is.

I don't think Zorn will ever be a good head coach. Jim Zorn is 54 years old, if I'm correct. He's no spring chicken even though most people think he is. I would think if he had it, it would have surfaced at some point before he arrived in D.C.

Some guys are just wired to be lifetime coordinators and position coaches, and Jim Zorn is one of those guys. Actually, I don't think Zorn would be a very good offensive coordinator either. You would see the same exact vanilla schemes and predictable play calling. I really think it was a colossal error to make him head coach so suddenly.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I don't think Zorn will ever be a good head coach. Jim Zorn is 54 years old, if I'm correct; he's no spring chicken even though most people think he is. I would think if he had it, it would have surfaced at some point before he arrived in D.C.

Some guys are just wired to be lifetime coordinators and position coaches, and Jim Zorn is one of those guys. Actually, I don't think Zorn would be a very good offensive coordinator either. You would see the same exact vanilla schemes and predictable play calling. I really think it was a colossal error to make him head coach so suddenly.

Well, I think his age has contributed to him being unable to handle three hats. If he was 42 or 43, maybe he could handle it. It would take a lot more work than he's currently putting in, but Gruden and Shanahan both pulled it off at similar ages. It's been done before.

I think one of the biggest flaws was that Zorn, in his early 50's, was treated like a young up-and-coming coaching superstar, and well, I think his age had a lot to do with his inability to meet all challenges.

To me, that doesn't make him not a good coach. I think he his a good coach. It makes him a horrible fit for the do it all superstar the Redskins were looking for. Even Gibbs 2.0 had fleeting success while wearing two hats, and Gibbs is one of the biggest proponents of surrounding yourself with the best people. Zorn's biggest flaw is that he didn't buy into Gibbs' most important principle.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

To me, that doesn't make him not a good coach. I think he his a good coach. It makes him a horrible fit for the do it all superstar the Redskins were looking for. Even Gibbs 2.0 had fleeting success while wearing two hats, and Gibbs is one of the biggest proponents of surrounding yourself with the best people. Zorn's biggest flaw is that he didn't buy into Gibbs' most important principle.

Seemed like to me Zorn put himself in that position a bit. I mean sure they brought him to handle Campbell too.. but playcalling, etc he could've easily let Sherman Smith handle.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

Seemed like to me Zorn put himself in that position a bit. I mean sure they brought him to handle Campbell too.. but playcalling, etc he could've easily let Sherman Smith handle.

Not trying to absolve Zorn from putting himself in a situation he couldn't handle, but I think he was more than willing to take whatever he could get.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Not trying to absolve Zorn from putting himself in a situation he couldn't handle, but I think he was more than willing to take whatever he could get.

Oh definitely, opportunity of a lifetime. They could've told him he had to paint the lines on the field and he would've obliged.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Well, I think his age has contributed to him being unable to handle three hats. If he was 42 or 43, maybe he could handle it. It would take a lot more work than he's currently putting in, but Gruden and Shanahan both pulled it off at similar ages. It's been done before.

I think one of the biggest flaws was that Zorn, in his early 50's, was treated like a young up-and-coming coaching superstar, and well, I think his age had a lot to do with his inability to meet all challenges.

To me, that doesn't make him not a good coach. I think he his a good coach. It makes him a horrible fit for the do it all superstar the Redskins were looking for. Even Gibbs 2.0 had fleeting success while wearing two hats, and Gibbs is one of the biggest proponents of surrounding yourself with the best people. Zorn's biggest flaw is that he didn't buy into Gibbs' most important principle.

I'm not sure what Zorn's biggest flaws are to be honest, but his strengths, whatever they are, don't exactly jump out at me either. I measure good coaching by one thing: winning. That's it. Good coaches win games. And he's yet to do that and it looks increasingly like he won't, at least not as the head coach of the Skins.

But the only reason I pointed out Zorn's age is because of the perception that Zorn was this guy in his 40s and that, perhaps, the fans were hoping that he would be the next Jon Gruden, Josh McDaniels, or Eric Mangini. Even though he didn't have the long coaching resume or Super Bowl ring, we were hoping that Jim Zorn would compensate for what he lacked on paper in other ways. My statement about his age wasn't an indictment on his skill or football acumen one way or another.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I'm not sure what Zorn's biggest flaws are to be honest, but his strengths, whatever they are, don't exactly jump out at me either. I measure good coaching by one thing: winning. That's it. Good coaches win games. And he's yet to do that and it looks increasingly like he won't, at least not as the head coach of the Skins.

But the only reason I pointed out Zorn's age is because of the perception that Zorn was this guy in his 40s and that, perhaps, the fans were hoping that he would be the next Jon Gruden, Josh McDaniels, or Eric Mangini. Even though he didn't have the long coaching resume or Super Bowl ring, we were hoping that Jim Zorn would compensate for what he lacked on paper in other ways. My statement about his age wasn't an indictment on his skill or football acumen one way or another.

Yeah, but bad coaches can win a lot of games too. There's no rule that says if your coach sucks, you have to lose. Or that if your coach understands the game inside and out, you have to win. Case in point: Manny Acta.

And I think that the big point that we're both in agreement on is that Zorn simply isn't who the Redskins thought he was. Zorn is just Jim Zorn. He's exactly the same guy Snyder was so impressed with. And he's just not cut out for the job that the Redskins were trying to fill.

To Snyder's credit, I don't think he he's trying to duck responsibility for this one. But finding Jim Zorn appears to have been one thing, putting Zorn in a situation where he could succeed is an entirely different one.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Yeah, but bad coaches can win a lot of games too. There's no rule that says if your coach sucks, you have to lose. Or that if your coach understands the game inside and out, you have to win. Case in point: Manny Acta.

And I think that the big point that we're both in agreement on is that Zorn simply isn't who the Redskins thought he was. Zorn is just Jim Zorn. He's exactly the same guy Snyder was so impressed with. And he's just not cut out for the job that the Redskins were trying to fill.

To Snyder's credit, I don't think he he's trying to duck responsibility for this one. But finding Jim Zorn appears to have been one thing, putting Zorn in a situation where he could succeed is an entirely different one.

You may have just helped me with the title of my next thread. Thanks.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Yeah, but bad coaches can win a lot of games too. There's no rule that says if your coach sucks, you have to lose. Or that if your coach understands the game inside and out, you have to win. Case in point: Manny Acta.

And I think that the big point that we're both in agreement on is that Zorn simply isn't who the Redskins thought he was. Zorn is just Jim Zorn. He's exactly the same guy Snyder was so impressed with. And he's just not cut out for the job that the Redskins were trying to fill.

To Snyder's credit, I don't think he he's trying to duck responsibility for this one. But finding Jim Zorn appears to have been one thing, putting Zorn in a situation where he could succeed is an entirely different one.

Agreed GTripp. One of the things I find interesting when people talk about Zorn is this. The o-line sucks..I think everyone agrees. Dropped balls, penalties, fumbles, missed blocks, missed assignments etc. have killed us. Zorn calls a play and it doesn't work..he's a dumbass. With the way this team is playing...what makes anyone think the call they would have made, would be executed the way it's suppose to? I agree he's called some questionable plays, but he's also called some good ones that the players just flatout F'd up. Batiste has to play because the FO doesn't, apparently, think the o-line is important and he has to change his calls because JC is about to get killed if he calls anything that takes time to develop. He's obviously inexperienced but he catches a lot of flack that would better be directly somewhere else. And yes..he is wearing too many hats....I believe he got them from the FO.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

One of the things I find interesting when people talk about Zorn is this. The o-line sucks..I think everyone agrees. Dropped balls, penalties, fumbles, missed blocks, missed assignments etc. have killed us. Zorn calls a play and it doesn't work..he's a dumbass. With the way this team is playing...what makes anyone think the call they would have made would be executed the way it's suppose to? I agree he's called some questionable plays, but he's also called some good ones that the players just flatout F'd up. Batiste has to play because the FO doesn't, apparently, think the o-line is important and he has to change his calls because JC is about to get killed if he calls anything that takes time to develop. He's obviously inexperienced but he catches a lot of flack that would better be directly somewhere else. And yes..he is wearing too many hats....I believe he got them from the FO.

But see those two things, play calling and execution, are both related. When a team doesn't execute properly, that's symptomatic of something else. Perhaps lack of confidence of the strategy or the call. It all goes back to coaching in some form.

Bottom line, this team isn't prepared week in and week out. And that's on Zorn.

[redsk1]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Yeah, but bad coaches can win a lot of games too. There's no rule that says if your coach sucks, you have to lose. Or that if your coach understands the game inside and out, you have to win. Case in point: Manny Acta.

And I think that the big point that we're both in agreement on is that Zorn simply isn't who the Redskins thought he was. Zorn is just Jim Zorn. He's exactly the same guy Snyder was so impressed with. And he's just not cut out for the job that the Redskins were trying to fill.

To Snyder's credit, I don't think he he's trying to duck responsibility for this one. But finding Jim Zorn appears to have been one thing, putting Zorn in a situation where he could succeed is an entirely different one.

I'm sure Snyder was impressed w/ Zorn but Zorn was not our first or second choice. I've got to believe he was a desperation hire. Cowher, Spags, Fassel all didn't work out (in Fassel's case, i think he was hired and Snyder changed his mind after a fan uproar).

What's troubling to me is that Snyder was "shocked" when JG's retired. Shocked? How can you run your organization w/out a "short" list of potential candidates especially when your coach, JG, was old and going on the 5th year of a 5 yr deal.

In hind sight, we did interview Josh McDaniel's, Ryan, Schwartz, and Spags...and we ended up w/ Jim Zorn? How did that happen?