It's a joy watching other teams play

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Well, I think his age has contributed to him being unable to handle three hats. If he was 42 or 43, maybe he could handle it. It would take a lot more work than he's currently putting in, but Gruden and Shanahan both pulled it off at similar ages. It's been done before.

I think one of the biggest flaws was that Zorn, in his early 50's, was treated like a young up-and-coming coaching superstar, and well, I think his age had a lot to do with his inability to meet all challenges.

To me, that doesn't make him not a good coach. I think he his a good coach. It makes him a horrible fit for the do it all superstar the Redskins were looking for. Even Gibbs 2.0 had fleeting success while wearing two hats, and Gibbs is one of the biggest proponents of surrounding yourself with the best people. Zorn's biggest flaw is that he didn't buy into Gibbs' most important principle.

I'm not sure what Zorn's biggest flaws are to be honest, but his strengths, whatever they are, don't exactly jump out at me either. I measure good coaching by one thing: winning. That's it. Good coaches win games. And he's yet to do that and it looks increasingly like he won't, at least not as the head coach of the Skins.

But the only reason I pointed out Zorn's age is because of the perception that Zorn was this guy in his 40s and that, perhaps, the fans were hoping that he would be the next Jon Gruden, Josh McDaniels, or Eric Mangini. Even though he didn't have the long coaching resume or Super Bowl ring, we were hoping that Jim Zorn would compensate for what he lacked on paper in other ways. My statement about his age wasn't an indictment on his skill or football acumen one way or another.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I'm not sure what Zorn's biggest flaws are to be honest, but his strengths, whatever they are, don't exactly jump out at me either. I measure good coaching by one thing: winning. That's it. Good coaches win games. And he's yet to do that and it looks increasingly like he won't, at least not as the head coach of the Skins.

But the only reason I pointed out Zorn's age is because of the perception that Zorn was this guy in his 40s and that, perhaps, the fans were hoping that he would be the next Jon Gruden, Josh McDaniels, or Eric Mangini. Even though he didn't have the long coaching resume or Super Bowl ring, we were hoping that Jim Zorn would compensate for what he lacked on paper in other ways. My statement about his age wasn't an indictment on his skill or football acumen one way or another.

Yeah, but bad coaches can win a lot of games too. There's no rule that says if your coach sucks, you have to lose. Or that if your coach understands the game inside and out, you have to win. Case in point: Manny Acta.

And I think that the big point that we're both in agreement on is that Zorn simply isn't who the Redskins thought he was. Zorn is just Jim Zorn. He's exactly the same guy Snyder was so impressed with. And he's just not cut out for the job that the Redskins were trying to fill.

To Snyder's credit, I don't think he he's trying to duck responsibility for this one. But finding Jim Zorn appears to have been one thing, putting Zorn in a situation where he could succeed is an entirely different one.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Yeah, but bad coaches can win a lot of games too. There's no rule that says if your coach sucks, you have to lose. Or that if your coach understands the game inside and out, you have to win. Case in point: Manny Acta.

And I think that the big point that we're both in agreement on is that Zorn simply isn't who the Redskins thought he was. Zorn is just Jim Zorn. He's exactly the same guy Snyder was so impressed with. And he's just not cut out for the job that the Redskins were trying to fill.

To Snyder's credit, I don't think he he's trying to duck responsibility for this one. But finding Jim Zorn appears to have been one thing, putting Zorn in a situation where he could succeed is an entirely different one.

You may have just helped me with the title of my next thread. Thanks.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Yeah, but bad coaches can win a lot of games too. There's no rule that says if your coach sucks, you have to lose. Or that if your coach understands the game inside and out, you have to win. Case in point: Manny Acta.

And I think that the big point that we're both in agreement on is that Zorn simply isn't who the Redskins thought he was. Zorn is just Jim Zorn. He's exactly the same guy Snyder was so impressed with. And he's just not cut out for the job that the Redskins were trying to fill.

To Snyder's credit, I don't think he he's trying to duck responsibility for this one. But finding Jim Zorn appears to have been one thing, putting Zorn in a situation where he could succeed is an entirely different one.

Agreed GTripp. One of the things I find interesting when people talk about Zorn is this. The o-line sucks..I think everyone agrees. Dropped balls, penalties, fumbles, missed blocks, missed assignments etc. have killed us. Zorn calls a play and it doesn't work..he's a dumbass. With the way this team is playing...what makes anyone think the call they would have made, would be executed the way it's suppose to? I agree he's called some questionable plays, but he's also called some good ones that the players just flatout F'd up. Batiste has to play because the FO doesn't, apparently, think the o-line is important and he has to change his calls because JC is about to get killed if he calls anything that takes time to develop. He's obviously inexperienced but he catches a lot of flack that would better be directly somewhere else. And yes..he is wearing too many hats....I believe he got them from the FO.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

One of the things I find interesting when people talk about Zorn is this. The o-line sucks..I think everyone agrees. Dropped balls, penalties, fumbles, missed blocks, missed assignments etc. have killed us. Zorn calls a play and it doesn't work..he's a dumbass. With the way this team is playing...what makes anyone think the call they would have made would be executed the way it's suppose to? I agree he's called some questionable plays, but he's also called some good ones that the players just flatout F'd up. Batiste has to play because the FO doesn't, apparently, think the o-line is important and he has to change his calls because JC is about to get killed if he calls anything that takes time to develop. He's obviously inexperienced but he catches a lot of flack that would better be directly somewhere else. And yes..he is wearing too many hats....I believe he got them from the FO.

But see those two things, play calling and execution, are both related. When a team doesn't execute properly, that's symptomatic of something else. Perhaps lack of confidence of the strategy or the call. It all goes back to coaching in some form.

Bottom line, this team isn't prepared week in and week out. And that's on Zorn.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

But see those two things, play calling and execution, are both related. When a team doesn't execute properly, that's symptomatic of something else. Perhaps lack of confidence of the strategy or the call. It all goes back to coaching in some form.

Bottom line, this team isn't prepared week in and week out. And that's on Zorn.

Yes it will fall on Zorn. But you can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear. He has what he has to work with and frankly, it's not much. This organization still hasn't learned how important an O-line is. I'm not taking blame away from Zorn completely. He picked out most of the O assistants, but he probably shouldn't have with no more experience than he has. Zorn can't do it himself and I don't think his assistants are all that great to be honest. They are just as responsible for preparing that part of the team that they coach as he is. What else are they here for?

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

Yes it will fall on Zorn. But you can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear.

Blache?

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

Blache?

The Bible I think. All I'm saying is that any good leader, whether it's business or football, surrounds himself with good people. I'm not sure Zorn has. You surround yourself w/friends, it doesn't always workout for the best. Snyder/Vinny. Maybe Zorn needs to just stop trying to run the whole show and learn to delegate and hold his assistants accountable and they'd all be better off.

[redsk1]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Yeah, but bad coaches can win a lot of games too. There's no rule that says if your coach sucks, you have to lose. Or that if your coach understands the game inside and out, you have to win. Case in point: Manny Acta.

And I think that the big point that we're both in agreement on is that Zorn simply isn't who the Redskins thought he was. Zorn is just Jim Zorn. He's exactly the same guy Snyder was so impressed with. And he's just not cut out for the job that the Redskins were trying to fill.

To Snyder's credit, I don't think he he's trying to duck responsibility for this one. But finding Jim Zorn appears to have been one thing, putting Zorn in a situation where he could succeed is an entirely different one.

I'm sure Snyder was impressed w/ Zorn but Zorn was not our first or second choice. I've got to believe he was a desperation hire. Cowher, Spags, Fassel all didn't work out (in Fassel's case, i think he was hired and Snyder changed his mind after a fan uproar).

What's troubling to me is that Snyder was "shocked" when JG's retired. Shocked? How can you run your organization w/out a "short" list of potential candidates especially when your coach, JG, was old and going on the 5th year of a 5 yr deal.

In hind sight, we did interview Josh McDaniel's, Ryan, Schwartz, and Spags...and we ended up w/ Jim Zorn? How did that happen?

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by redsk1

I'm sure Snyder was impressed w/ Zorn but Zorn was not our first or second choice. I've got to believe he was a desperation hire. Cowher, Spags, Fassel all didn't work out (in Fassel's case, i think he was hired and Snyder changed his mind after a fan uproar).

What's troubling to me is that Snyder was "shocked" when JG's retired. Shocked? How can you run your organization w/out a "short" list of potential candidates especially when your coach, JG, was old and going on the 5th year of a 5 yr deal.

In hind sight, we did interview Josh McDaniel's, Ryan, Schwartz, and Spags...and we ended up w/ Jim Zorn? How did that happen?

Nobody wanted to work here, but they were interested in the offer$