Campbell's numbers dont lie

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I'm a Campbell supporter that hasn't turned on him but I am disappointed in what I've seen from him this year. I expected him to be much, much more productive when given the opportunities. I'm really starting to fear he's been Ramsey-fied. He's not playing QB, he's playing the role of a robot QB trying to be perfect and please his coach. He needs a major dose of 'f**k it' and just go out and play.

I think, if we had stuck with the offense Gibbs drafted Campbell for, and we had given a top 10 offensive line, he could have become a really good QB in the NFL, perhaps even a franchise QB (although not an elite guy like Brady or Manning). However, those weren't the cards he was dealt. At the point Cerrato decided to hire Jim Zorn as head coach, it ruined Campbells chances of having becoming a franchise QB. Campbell was a square peg. the WCO is his round hole. It NEVER had a good chance of working. I don't know why so many people put faith in it.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I think, if we had stuck with the offense Gibbs drafted Campbell for, and we had given a top 10 offensive line, he could have become a really good QB in the NFL, perhaps even a franchise QB (although not an elite guy like Brady or Manning). However, those weren't the cards he was dealt. At the point Cerrato decided to hire Jim Zorn as head coach, it ruined Campbells chances of having becoming a franchise QB. Campbell was a square peg. the WCO is his round hole. It NEVER had a good chance of working. I don't know why so many people put faith in it.

Well, that's what makes us fans I guess. I really think that Gibbs over-coached him to the point where he's so terrified of turnovers he is still overcoming that over protective nature that was instilled in him.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Well, that's what makes us fans I guess. I really think that Gibbs over-coached him to the point where he's so terrified of turnovers he is still overcoming that over protective nature that was instilled in him.

I don't know. Campbell's forcing a lot of throws and committing a lot of errors.

We knew coming in that his low turnover rate wasn't sustainable, and he'd have to throw for more yards and TDs to cover for it. So far, he's done that, but thanks to the makeup of the rest of the offense, it hasn't helped translate to points. The additional points added by extending drives have been completely offset by the increase in turnovers. The run game has been spotty at best, which hasn't helped things.

I don't think the WCO is the issue, I just think that this is what we've built. Last year (first five games), we had five good or great players on offense: Kendall, Samuels, Portis, Campbell, and Cooley. As the year went on, Samuels and Portis became ineffective players for one reason or another, and that left us with three. Kendall walked in the offseason (he was probably having a career year anyway), and we replaced him, shrewedly, but with a mediocre Dockery.

With Samuels on the mend, Campbell and Cooley are the only things this offense has besides deception. If we bench Campbell, then it's just Cooley. There's probably no way to score points with just a QB and TE, and certainly no way to score with just a TE.

Thing is, we're getting better contribution on the marginal players this year than last year. Which is one of the things that led me to project an above average offense, and 11 wins. But there's just been no breakout on offense from either Campbell or anyone else.

Of course, in hindsight, Campbell did breakout last year. This is simply the limit of his value in an offense like the Redskins. Sadly, it's not good enough, and will never be.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I don't think the WCO is the issue, I just think that this is what we've built. Last year (first five games), we had five good or great players on offense: Kendall, Samuels, Portis, Campbell, and Cooley. As the year went on, Samuels and Portis became ineffective players for one reason or another, and that left us with three. Kendall walked in the offseason (he was probably having a career year anyway), and we replaced him, shrewedly, but with a mediocre Dockery.

You made a lot of great points and I agreed with most of it except what you said here. With 5 undisputedly "good" (not great) players on offense last year we should have been much better than we were. This year, we've lost a couple of those guys and others have declined. However, I think one of the key problems with our entire offense is that we don't have the right personnel to run it. Like it or not, Campbell is simply not suited to be a WCO Quarterback. Can he do it - sure. Any QB can play the WCO if he has to - but the key is he can't do it well. Then there's Portis, who has bulked up from his denver days and is a power runner, he's not explosive and not a great pass-catcher either - not the right type of feature back for a WCO. And we can complain all we want about how bad our O-line is, because it is bad, but its not the right type of offensive line to run a WCO. Even when healthy, the line wasnt light or agile enough to run the WCO effectively.

When it boils down to it, Vinny and Danny made a huge mistake by hiring a WCO coach and not replacing the current offensive personnel. As a result, they've wasted two years of everyones time and wasted alot of potential.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Like it or not, Campbell is simply not suited to be a WCO Quarterback. Can he do it - sure. Any QB can play the WCO if he has to - but the key is he can't do it well.

An undefeated season (should have been a National Champonship) at Auburn says otherwise.

I see a lot of talent and physical ability with Campbell, even signs of leadership forming after being so shy and business-like in earlier years.

He's obviously being held back by poor playcalling and personnel decisions, mainly regarding the offensive line, or lack of. You can see it clearly. As the line breaks down over the year, and last season also, his numbers begin to decline. Also, as other teams figure out Zorn's playcalls as the season progresses and we become more predictable, both this year and last year, his performances can't possibly improve.

When protected and in a good offensive scheme, he excels.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by Buster

An undefeated season (should have been a National Champonship) at Auburn says otherwise.

College is a whole different game. They miss open guys just as much, but they also have receivers that get 10 yards open and literally stand there and wait for the ball and get tackled on the 4 yard line because the safety finally figured out what happened. You don't have the speed, the routes, the necessity to catch in stride, the defensive looks, etc in college nearly the same as you do in the NFL.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

You made a lot of great points and I agreed with most of it except what you said here. With 5 undisputedly "good" (not great) players on offense last year we should have been much better than we were. This year, we've lost a couple of those guys and others have declined. However, I think one of the key problems with our entire offense is that we don't have the right personnel to run it. Like it or not, Campbell is simply not suited to be a WCO Quarterback. Can he do it - sure. Any QB can play the WCO if he has to - but the key is he can't do it well. Then there's Portis, who has bulked up from his denver days and is a power runner, he's not explosive and not a great pass-catcher either - not the right type of feature back for a WCO. And we can complain all we want about how bad our O-line is, because it is bad, but its not the right type of offensive line to run a WCO. Even when healthy, the line wasnt light or agile enough to run the WCO effectively.

When it boils down to it, Vinny and Danny made a huge mistake by hiring a WCO coach and not replacing the current offensive personnel. As a result, they've wasted two years of everyones time and wasted alot of potential.

We were arguably the best offensive team in the NFL for the first half of the season. It's because of the miserable failures since then that it seems like so gosh darn long ago, but what we did have was working. We were, in part because of two wins over cupcakes, 6-2. Three games before, we were a very legit 4-1, and one of the best five teams in football. That was with the WCO. There was nothing fluky about that performance that wouldn't also apply to the first six games of this season.

From that point forward, decline set in and things were clearly different. The OL cracked and later broke. The lack of depth at WR really set in when our running game became unproductive. None of these things have the first thing to do with the WCO. It wasn't un-normal decline, or decline related to the expansion of the WCO, and contrary to popular reporting, the run fits did not change in the middle of the season.

Campbell has both played in the WCO well and poorly over the last 22 games. He has reached the highest point in his career (Week 7), and the lowest (the 2009 offseason) playing in the same offense. He hasn't been terrible this year, but at age 27, we're getting somewhere close to whatever he's going to be in this offense. Eli Manning is an exception to the rule, as he endured a horrific regular season in his 3rd full year as a starter, but played on a team that lucked into the playoff, and has since raised his level of play.

Ultimately, though, the comparison ends there. Eli plays for an organization who--even though they gave up more to get him than we gave for Campbell--never moved to scapegoat him for any offensive issues they might have had. We on the other hand, have systematically sabotaged anything we might have gotten from Campbell at the conclusion of his development through horrendous personnel decisions and complete mis-management.

What I said in the offseason still rings true: if this organization can't win with Campbell, then they can't win without him. Major organizational changes will be necessary to ever have an offense that can produce points consistently, and that means that whoever is building the 2010 team cannot worry about who the QB of the team is. Campbell or anyone else. Too many other pressing issues: offensive and defensive, must be taken care of first.

[RedBar]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Too many other pressing issues: offensive and defensive, must be taken care of first.

ESPECIALLY the defense hey Trip. LOL. 5th overall defense, 8th in scoring and tied for six in your beloved sacks.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by RedBar

ESPECIALLY the defense hey Trip. LOL. 5th overall defense, 8th in scoring and tied for six in your beloved sacks.

Your words, not mine.