Campbell's numbers dont lie

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

Forget the stats, forget comparing him to any other quarterback and really isolate Campbell's play. Okay, take the bad plays that YOU think were definitely the fault of offensive linemen and wide receivers and don't consider these in evaluating Campbell's play. Now look at the rest of the plays and then tell me how he did. If you can't find these mistakes from the last game that Campbell was responsible for then let me know - turnovers, missed touchdowns/big plays, and awful pocket presence (leading to undue pressure and sacks).

I think everything on offense is predicated on and ran through the quarterback. That's why I really believe that the most important thing is to fix that position first, because it is the most important (position) to the offense. To me, you really have to look at the most important positions first to fix things because of the impact they have to their unit and thus their team. Usually, I think one of the last positions that you would consider important on the list is probably a blocker on kickoff returns.

Its a losing battle. You will not convince the believers. No argument will make them see. Just be content with the fact that the people who watch the film for a living see what you are seeing. Jaws called it all night. Greg Cossel has made the point ad nauseam. On this board Slingin' Sammy has it in black and white in his review. The old adage is "the eye in the sky doesn't lie" not "numbers are truth." If you can't see that Campbell is frankly scared to make passes then you are not watching. You can make all of the excuses you like, the guy refuses to throw into tight windows. I have said it before and Sammy said it nicely in his game review, without the ability to make quick reads, play with timing, and throw into tight windows you are a backup quarterback at the NFL level. That is what we have with Campbell. Next man.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

Its a losing battle. You will not convince the believers. No argument will make them see. Just be content with the fact that the people who watch the film for a living see what you are seeing. Jaws called it all night. Greg Cossel has made the point ad nauseam. On this board Slingin' Sammy has it in black and white in his review. The old adage is "the eye in the sky doesn't lie" not "numbers are truth." If you can't see that Campbell is frankly scared to make passes then you are not watching. You can make all of the excuses you like, the guy refuses to throw into tight windows. I have said it before and Sammy said it nicely in his game review, without the ability to make quick reads, play with timing, and throw into tight windows you are a backup quarterback at the NFL level. That is what we have with Campbell. Next man.

Yeah, it appears that the campbell defenders won't even listen to some of the most respected experts linked to the nfl. Even when these experts make it a point to start off their analysis of the redskins losing with a focus on campbell's play.

My opinion doesn't have a lot of weight and rightfully so, but you have to really listen when someone like Steve Young (who I think has earned his respect) starts his analysis by saying Campbell played a bad game and continues it by putting focus on some of his mistakes.

The analysis of these experts also should be used to judge Campbell's play more than the stats. And I don't think there's any analysis that has expressed that Campbell has been playing "very well" up to this point.

[Redskin Warrior]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

Its a losing battle. You will not convince the believers. No argument will make them see. Just be content with the fact that the people who watch the film for a living see what you are seeing. Jaws called it all night. Greg Cossel has made the point ad nauseam. On this board Slingin' Sammy has it in black and white in his review. The old adage is "the eye in the sky doesn't lie" not "numbers are truth." If you can't see that Campbell is frankly scared to make passes then you are not watching. You can make all of the excuses you like, the guy refuses to throw into tight windows. I have said it before and Sammy said it nicely in his game review, without the ability to make quick reads, play with timing, and throw into tight windows you are a backup quarterback at the NFL level. That is what we have with Campbell. Next man.

I'm a JC believer and I agree with what you said but not everyone the believes in him or supports him is in denial that he needs to work on things. JC is timid to throw into tight windows that is correct I agree 100% and some of that is that he doesn't trust his receivers. I've watched JC from his college days until now I'm a huge SEC fan period and I know what the fellow can do. All I said is part of his problem is previous coaching hammering him with "Don't Lose The Game" mentality has hurt him now he doesn't take risk as much. I just found out that we don't have audibles in our offense so if the defense in a certain coverage he can't audibles into other plays. Peyton is so successful because he actually changes plays at the line to move down field. If the blitz is coming but a playaction pass is called truth be told he is probably going to take that sack or call a timeout. So he's limited in certain areas more than other QB's that's not his fault, but he is not playing well at all and has happy feet but it comes from him not trusting his line and receivers.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by Redskin Warrior

I'm a JC believer and I agree with what you said but not everyone the believes in him or supports him is in denial that he needs to work on things. JC is timid to throw into tight windows that is correct I agree 100% and some of that is that he doesn't trust his receivers. I've watched JC from his college days until now I'm a huge SEC fan period and I know what the fellow can do. All I said is part of his problem is previous coaching hammering him with "Don't Lose The Game" mentality has hurt him now he doesn't take risk as much. I just found out that we don't have audibles in our offense so if the defense in a certain coverage he can't audibles into other plays. Peyton is so successful because he actually changes plays at the line to move down field. If the blitz is coming but a playaction pass is called truth be told he is probably going to take that sack or call a timeout. So he's limited in certain areas more than other QB's that's not his fault, but he is not playing well at all and has happy feet but it comes from him not trusting his line and receivers.

This probably is all true, but when do you hold him accountable for his own actions and the mistakes that was under his control?

[Redskin Warrior]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

This probably is all true, but when do you hold him accountable for his own actions and the mistakes that was under his control?

I do hold him accountable for overthrows, running into sacks, going threw his progressions to fast, but that doesn't stop me from supporting him. All QB do these things but it's pointed out more when you are on a losing team. JC deserves some criticism but not all of the criticism WR's, RB's, OL, TE's need to come out and say ok we realize our QB is struggling and obviously he doesn't trust us to an extent what can we do better. I realize this comes with the territory but if his teammates come to bat for him and publicly endorse and support him like they did Zorn. I feel that would show JC were not using you as a scapegoat we haven't giving up on you even if they have.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Redskin Warrior

but if his teammates come to bat for him and publicly endorse and support him like they did Zorn. I feel that would show JC were not using you as a scapegoat we haven't giving up on you even if they have.

I think to a man JC's teammates support him.
I think the people that don't support him are the FO and quasi-fans.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by 30gut

I think to a man JC's teammates support him.
I think the people that don't support him are the FO and quasi-fans.

Are you his agent?

[30gut]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

Are you his agent?

Are you a troll?

[30gut]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

Its a losing battle. You will not convince the believers. No argument will make them see. Just be content with the fact that the people who watch the film for a living see what you are seeing. Jaws called it all night. Greg Cossel has made the point ad nauseam. On this board Slingin' Sammy has it in black and white in his review. The old adage is "the eye in the sky doesn't lie" not "numbers are truth." If you can't see that Campbell is frankly scared to make passes then you are not watching. You can make all of the excuses you like, the guy refuses to throw into tight windows. I have said it before and Sammy said it nicely in his game review, without the ability to make quick reads, play with timing, and throw into tight windows you are a backup quarterback at the NFL level. That is what we have with Campbell. Next man.

Dude, Jaws both praises and critisizes Campbell, Cossel has been effusive breaking down Campbell passes. As have Brian Billick, Phil Simms. Just this week Collinsworth on Doc Walker, Joey T on the Sports Reporters, John Ritchie on ESPN have all said that JC is a good QB playing behind a suspect OL.

Lol, I like Sammy's reveiws too but he's no more an expert then i am.
You guys share the same opinion but its still just your opinion.

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

Forget the stats, forget comparing him to any other quarterback and really isolate Campbell's play.

I'm not denying that JC misses open receivers or checksdown.
But rather the idea that JC does it more then other QBs and that is how a judgement is made.

from the last game that Campbell was responsible for then let me know - turnovers, missed touchdowns/big plays, and awful pocket presence (leading to undue pressure and sacks).

Awful pocket presence leading to undue pressure? Really? You think JC is causing the pressure and sacks? Okay.
LoL, JC pocket presence or lack thereof at the start of the game is due to previous games lack of protection.
Although JC had pressure the fumble was his fault the onus is always on the ball carrier to protect the ball.
Missed 'big' play? Dude, every QB misses some plays, they pointed out McNabb missing a 'big' play.

I think everything on offense is predicated on and ran through the quarterback. That's why I really believe that the most important thing is to fix that position first,

OL brotha OL it starts right there.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Awful pocket presence leading to undue pressure? Really? You think JC is causing the pressure and sacks? Okay.
LoL, JC pocket presence or lack thereof at the start of the game is due to previous games lack of protection.
Although JC had pressure the fumble was his fault the onus is always on the ball carrier to protect the ball.
Missed 'big' play? Dude, every QB misses some plays, they pointed out McNabb missing a 'big' play.

I started to express some points to counter your responses with all that you said (and not what I have just quoted you on), but I feel like I'm repeating myself.

All I want to ask to you is - do you agree with some others on here that jason campbell is playing very well this season?

Then I can see where you're at in the way you are thinking.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

I started to express some points to counter your responses with all that you said (and not what I have just quoted you on), but I feel like I'm repeating myself.

All I want to ask to you is - do you agree with some others on here that jason campbell is playing very well this season?

Then I can see where you're at in the way you are thinking.

JC is the 18th ranked QB in the NFL.

JC is playing about as well as can be expected given the circumstances.

Being the QB for this Redskins team with the OL issues, lack of a ground game and suspect coaching/playcalling is not conducive to playing very well.

Barring a strong second half (not just stats but with wins and a general upward trend of the team), JC will be starting for someone next year.