Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update

[redsk1]

Originally Posted by irish

I agree, its time to move on to the future and stop looking to the past. Gibbs had his time and he was great, now its time to find the new Gibbs.

Yep, it's time to find new talent. Time to bring in a young talented GM.

[Longtimefan]

It apears to me Joe Gibbs will forever be linked to the Redskins either directly. or indirectly for as long as he lives. He's forever enshrined in our conscience.

[MTK]

I don't think this move would be to appease the fans, when has Snyder ever showed he cares about what the fans think? I think it has much more to do with the fact Gibbs is someone that Snyder trusts and respects.

[MTK]

The team was much better off when Gibbs left than it is now, that's all I know. You can't deny the team has spun downward since he left.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

The team was much better off when Gibbs left than it is now, that's all I know. You can't deny the team has spun downward since he left.

We've seen this happen TWICE also.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Buster

We've seen this happen TWICE also.

Yes! I point my finger JG1 for leaving us high an dry with aged players. I can't blame JG2 for the second time. Although he left abruptly he left us with GW and a half decent scheme. Everyone kept clammering that they needed a better QB, better WR's, and a pass rush. I am to blame as well. I think now had we beefed up the O-line even Al Saunders might have been able to get his system to work.

Whats sad is we have no passing game and now no running game to go along with a top notch defense. We complained about AS not taking shots down field with his offensive scheme, then go out to pick up a "high scoring WCO," and in reality we regressed. I almost, almost welcome AS's offensive scheme more these days.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

The team was much better off when Gibbs left than it is now, that's all I know. You can't deny the team has spun downward since he left.

That's debatable. It's not MUCH better off.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

That's debatable. It's not MUCH better off.

Not debatable if you ask me. This season is a disaster and the entire org. is in disarray.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

That's debatable. It's not MUCH better off.

When he left, the organization from top to bottom had come together as a team and was coming off a playoff run after the death of ST. To a man, the players, coaches and FO pointed to Gibbs as the influence that brought the team through and gave them the fire to continue.

The more I see of Zorn the coach, I am convinced that the 6-2 start to the 2008 season was a direct result of Gibbs influence the prior year. But for Gibbs, the 6-2 start would not have occurred. Further, (and I know this is the "what if" game), had Gibbs returned in 2008, the team would have found a way into the playoffs again.

Without Gibbs to exert some influence over DS, Cerrato and his toxic attitude became the main character of the organization. This was exhibited almost from day one when Vinny's people intimated that G.Williams bad mouthed Gibbs. That set the tone for the next two years.

The only thing Gibbs did not do that he should have done is said "Dan, Vinny's attitude and relationship with everyone else in football sucks. He cannot be in a position of control within this organization if it is to succeed."

To assert that Gibbs didn't raise the team out of the Spurrier Chaos or that it didn't immediately sink back into the Cerrato Toxic Dump without him, is IMHO not debatable.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

When he left, the organization from top to bottom had come together as a team and was coming off a playoff run after the death of ST. To a man, the players, coaches and FO pointed to Gibbs as the influence that brought the team through and gave them the fire to continue.

The more I see of Zorn the coach, I am convinced that the 6-2 start to the 2008 season was a direct result of Gibbs influence the prior year. But for Gibbs, the 6-2 start would not have occurred. Further, (and I know this is the "what if" game), had Gibbs returned in 2008, the team would have found a way into the playoffs again.

Without Gibbs to exert some influence over DS, Cerrato and his toxic attitude became the main character of the organization. This was exhibited almost from day one when Vinny's people intimated that G.Williams bad mouthed Gibbs. That set the tone for the next two years.

The only thing Gibbs did not do that he should have done is said "Dan, Vinny's attitude and relationship with everyone else in football sucks. He cannot be in a position of control within this organization if it is to succeed."

To assert that Gibbs didn't raise the team out of the Spurrier Chaos or that it didn't immediately sink back into the Cerrato Toxic Dump without him, is IMHO not debatable.

Best sentence in this thread.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

When he left, the organization from top to bottom had come together as a team and was coming off a playoff run after the death of ST. To a man, the players, coaches and FO pointed to Gibbs as the influence that brought the team through and gave them the fire to continue.

The more I see of Zorn the coach, I am convinced that the 6-2 start to the 2008 season was a direct result of Gibbs influence the prior year. But for Gibbs, the 6-2 start would not have occurred. Further, (and I know this is the "what if" game), had Gibbs returned in 2008, the team would have found a way into the playoffs again.

Without Gibbs to exert some influence over DS, Cerrato and his toxic attitude became the main character of the organization. This was exhibited almost from day one when Vinny's people intimated that G.Williams bad mouthed Gibbs. That set the tone for the next two years.

The only thing Gibbs did not do that he should have done is said "Dan, Vinny's attitude and relationship with everyone else in football sucks. He cannot be in a position of control within this organization if it is to succeed."

To assert that Gibbs didn't raise the team out of the Spurrier Chaos or that it didn't immediately sink back into the Cerrato Toxic Dump without him, is IMHO not debatable.

Well said!! Many people bash Gibbs about bad trading picks and making bad moves during Gibbs II. How the hell do we know that it wasn't Danny or Vinny that wanted this moves made and Joe just appeased them? We don't know what went on behind the scenes, we just assume.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

Well said!! Many people bash Gibbs about bad trading picks and making bad moves during Gibbs II. How the hell do we know that it wasn't Danny or Vinny that wanted this moves made and Joe just appeased them? We don't know what went on behind the scenes, we just assume.

Well, that's kinda the point. If Gibbs was there and we still aquired mediocre talent, regardless of who was responsible, the fact remains Joe Gibbs was a part of this organization at that time. Yes, we were better. But anyone watching the Skins during his final season, could tell we were running on fumes.

My fundamental question is what has changed since Gibbs has left? Did he suddenly gain some magic touch to get people to come here that he didn't possess the second time around. Personally, I love Joe Gibbs as much as the next guy. And I know you guys are tired of hearing me beat this dead horse whenever a Joe Gibbs thread crops up. I just don't buy the notion that Danny only listens to Gibbs and he's the key to bringing in the "right" people. Somthing just ain't right about that.

We need to move on and start fresh. For the record, I don't want Dan Snyder to sell the team. We're about to possibly enter an un-capped era. So I want an owner as financially committed to success and winning as Synder seems to be. It's not his motive that anyone questions, it's his methods.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

Well said!! Many people bash Gibbs about bad trading picks and making bad moves during Gibbs II. How the hell do we know that it wasn't Danny or Vinny that wanted this moves made and Joe just appeased them? We don't know what went on behind the scenes, we just assume.

They're all at fault. Gibbs traded away picks for Brunell when he was going to be cut. We gave up an extra number one to pick Campbell. I could go on and on. Some of what went on here is on Gibbs and we'd be foolish to think otherwise.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

When he left, the organization from top to bottom had come together as a team and was coming off a playoff run after the death of ST. To a man, the players, coaches and FO pointed to Gibbs as the influence that brought the team through and gave them the fire to continue.

The more I see of Zorn the coach, I am convinced that the 6-2 start to the 2008 season was a direct result of Gibbs influence the prior year. But for Gibbs, the 6-2 start would not have occurred. Further, (and I know this is the "what if" game), had Gibbs returned in 2008, the team would have found a way into the playoffs again.

Without Gibbs to exert some influence over DS, Cerrato and his toxic attitude became the main character of the organization. This was exhibited almost from day one when Vinny's people intimated that G.Williams bad mouthed Gibbs. That set the tone for the next two years.

The only thing Gibbs did not do that he should have done is said "Dan, Vinny's attitude and relationship with everyone else in football sucks. He cannot be in a position of control within this organization if it is to succeed."

To assert that Gibbs didn't raise the team out of the Spurrier Chaos or that it didn't immediately sink back into the Cerrato Toxic Dump without him, is IMHO not debatable.

No one loves or respects Joe Gibbs as much as I do. He's one of my idols. As fas as football is concerned he has never shown any ability to pick players. His strenghts are being a leader of men, managing people, being a great game day coach during Gibbs 1 and so forth. When has he ever put a professional football front office together? NEVER. He made numerous blunders coaching and in personel when he came back. But one thing he ( AND GREG WILLIAMS) did was bring back some dignity and respectability to the franchise. Williams isn't getting a lot of credit but he played a HUGE role here. His defense won that playoff game in TB. That is gone out the window now. But as far as what's on the field I don't think Gibbs could've done much with last years team. The same problems that Gibbs had, Zorn is having...game mgt issues, wasting TO's, shitty playcalling, an inability to score points. The best thing for Dan S. to do is call someone who is qualified to run a front office for today's NFL. That guy is not Joe Gibbs.

[12thMan]

I've yet to hear a good reason as to why bring Gibbs back. Okay he's not going to be GM, fine. But he's going to be president or something or other and help Danny pick a GM a good coach.

It's like this team is constantly trying to force square pegs into round circles and say, there we figured out it now.