Our next coach??

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Not really. Hiring an OC before a HC wreaked of an owner wanting to essentially install a "puppet head coach," which is exactly what Zorn has been his entire time here. Its only become blatantly evident in the most recent couple of months as Zorn has been publically neutered of authority and responsibilities. If I didnt know better, i'd think Snyder never really expected Zorn to succeed and was merely using him as a placeholder the entire time until bigger fish became available. (Who rebuffed Snyder 2 years ago because he wasnt ready to return to coaching yet?... Hmmm. No, can't be it. Snyder and Cowher don't want to have anything to do with eachother.)

Anyway, hiring a big name head coach before hiring a GM is the most sensible thing to do in this situation. While its often wise to gamble on a young HC with upside, you simply don't gamble on a GM. If you're rebuilding, you want to do it with someone who has serious credentials. Chris Polian was the only guy who fit the bill and he's now off the market. As far as older guys who've been GMs before, they've all been fired from previous jobs and for good reason - they have proven track records of failure. There are simply no "elite" GMs available. However, there are two, and possibly three (if we include Holmgren), elite coaches available. The smart thing to do in these circumstances is to hire your coach and then let him select a GM he trusts and is comfortable working with. If Snyder doesnt do that, then surely, one of the other teams out there will. If Snyder wants to land one of them, he would be foolish to fire Cerrato and hire a GM before selecting the HC. To do so would limit his options, as Cowher and probably Shanahan, already have guys in mind they'd want to fill GM roles.

Now, Snyder may hire Parcells or Gibbs as team president, and let them select the coach and GM... but under no circumstances should he hire a GM before a coach unless/until Cowher, Shanahan, and Holmgren are no longer available/under consideration.

Kind of like Mangini and Kokinis with the Browns?

There are plenty of strong candidates for GM (DeCosta, Raye, Gaine-just to name three of the younger guys)

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Kind of like Mangini and Kokinis with the Browns?

There are plenty of strong candidates for GM (DeCosta, Raye, Gaine-just to name three of the younger guys)

Given the caliber of experienced HC talent out there, i wouldn't gamble on Shanahan, Holmgren, or Cowher wanting to work for any of these guys. Now, if you want to go with a young, unproven coach again, then sure, make one of these guys GM and let him select the coach. However, I personally would much rather have an experienced coach at this point. I'd even rather have Fassel (I can't believe I just said that)

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Given the caliber of experienced HC talent out there, i wouldn't gamble on Shanahan, Holmgren, or Cowher wanting to work for any of these guys. Now, if you want to go with a young, unproven coach again, then sure, make one of these guys GM and let him select the coach. However, I personally would much rather have an experienced coach at this point. I'd even rather have Fassel (I can't believe I just said that)

Well, this is the danger of going after experienced guys like the three you mentioned. Because all have proven success rates as NFL head coaches. But Shanahan doesn't want to come back as just head coach and his record as a personnel man is not all that much better (if at all) than VC's; Holmgren seems to want to be Bill Parcells and not coach at all and if he agreed to coach he'd probably want to GM as well-and he hasn't shown he can be too successful in a dual role.

And then there's Cowher who has no experience in the dual role.

All I'm saying is what's better-Mike Shanahan as both Head Coach and GM or say Eric DeCosta as GM, Russ Grimm as HC, and Charlie Weis as offensive coordinator (just to throw some names out there)?

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

All I'm saying is what's better-Mike Shanahan as both Head Coach and GM or say Eric DeCosta as GM, Russ Grimm as HC, and Charlie Weis as offensive coordinator (just to throw some names out there)?

Do you think Grimm is an HC candidate anywhere in the league?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

Do you think Grimm is an HC candidate anywhere in the league?

Well, his name is often mentioned and I'm sure it will be again. He has some knocks against him but I'm sure he'll be a leading candidate in a few places.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Well, this is the danger of going after experienced guys like the three you mentioned. Because all have proven success rates as NFL head coaches. But Shanahan doesn't want to come back as just head coach and his record as a personnel man is not all that much better (if at all) than VC's; Holmgren seems to want to be Bill Parcells and not coach at all and if he agreed to coach he'd probably want to GM as well-and he hasn't shown he can be too successful in a dual role.

And then there's Cowher who has no experience in the dual role.

All I'm saying is what's better-Mike Shanahan as both Head Coach and GM or say Eric DeCosta as GM, Russ Grimm as HC, and Charlie Weis as offensive coordinator (just to throw some names out there)?

By all appearances, Holmgren will be announced as the Seahawks GM any day now, so I think we can essentially remove him from the list of candidates for any role with this team (if we hadnt already done so.)

Regarding Shanahan, i haven't definitively read that he wants total control himself. Is it confirmed? My impression is that he may just want to pick his front office staff, similar to what Cowher is reportedly looking for. However, if either of them wants total control, i think we should pass.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

By all appearances, Holmgren will be announced as the Seahawks GM any day now, so I think we can essentially remove him from the list of candidates for any role with this team (if we hadnt already done so.)

Regarding Shanahan, i haven't definitively read that he wants total control himself. Is it confirmed? My impression is that he may just want to pick his front office staff, similar to what Cowher is reportedly looking for. However, if either of them wants total control, i think we should pass.

Shanahan would probably pick a General Manager but that person will be more of a coordinator/organizer who will compile the information kind of like Heckert does for Reid in Philly, or even the Broncos had with Ted Sundquist. It was Shanahan's team but Sundquist had the title of GM.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Shanahan would probably pick a General Manager but that person will be more of a coordinator/organizer who will compile the information kind of like Heckert does for Reid in Philly, or even the Broncos had with Ted Sundquist. It was Shanahan's team but Sundquist had the title of GM.

Well the only positive thing I could say about Shanahan here in that scenario is that Shanahan would be making the final call on player acquisitions instead of Snyderatto and he'd have the sense to draft offensive linemen in the first two rounds every now and then. I'd rather Shanahan have a "puppet GM" than Snyder to continue to use Vinny as his.

Of course, the same thing could be said if we had a true GM - Snyder wouldnt be the one making the decisions anymore.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Well the only positive thing I could say about Shanahan here in that scenario is that Shanahan would be making the final call on player acquisitions instead of Snyderatto and he'd have the sense to draft offensive linemen in the first two rounds every now and then. I'd rather Shanahan have a "puppet GM" than Snyder to continue to use Vinny as his.

Of course, the same thing could be said if we had a true GM - Snyder wouldnt be the one making the decisions anymore.

I think maybe once, perhaps twice, in 10 years did Shanahan and the Broncos draft offensive linemen in the first two rounds

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Given the caliber of experienced HC talent out there, i wouldn't gamble on Shanahan, Holmgren, or Cowher wanting to work for any of these guys. Now, if you want to go with a young, unproven coach again, then sure, make one of these guys GM and let him select the coach. However, I personally would much rather have an experienced coach at this point. I'd even rather have Fassel (I can't believe I just said that)

Why can't you believe you just said that? For the life of me, I cannot understand the deep-rooted hatred some people have for Jim Fassel.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Why can't you believe you just said that? For the life of me, I cannot understand the deep-rooted hatred some people have for Jim Fassel.

He sucks! That's why he is coaching in the UFL.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

He sucks! That's why he is coaching in the UFL.

Ahh, yes. The powerful, convincing, "He sucks" argument...

Let's see, a coach of the year award, guided his team to the Super Bowl, a conference championship, 3 playoff appearances, and a 24-17-1 record vs. the NFC East.

Not even close to sucking. Try again.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Ahh, yes. The powerful, convincing, "He sucks" argument...

Let's see, a coach of the year award, guided his team to the Super Bowl, a conference championship, 3 playoff appearances, and a 24-17-1 record vs. the NFC East.

Not even close to sucking. Try again.

I think you and I are part of the limited minority when it comes to Fassel. Of the final candidates for the job in 2008, I think Fassel would have been the best choice. He's developed two Super Bowl winning QBs in John Elway and Phil Simms, Kerry Collins had his best seasons as a QB when he played under Fassel. As has been mentioned, he's taken a team to the Super Bowl. And he knows how to deal with big-time media and intense scrutiny, having coached in New York...and his UFL team just won the championship.

There are certainly better options than Fassel but I don't understand why he gets such a bad rap either Beems. I can't understand why we so quickly dismiss the likes of Fassel, Fisher, and Schottenheimer because they've never won a Super Bowl in spite of all their success overall as head coaches in the NFL...yet we clamor for the likes of Cam Cameron, who could be just fine his second time around but hasn't accomplished nearly what the others have.

All that said, I'm thinking of jumping on the Gary Kubiak bandwagon. I know Tripp-clock management. But anyway, let the Texans have Mike Shanahan as GM/HC and give us Kubiak

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I think you and I are part of the limited minority when it comes to Fassel. Of the final candidates for the job in 2008, I think Fassel would have been the best choice. He's developed two Super Bowl winning QBs in John Elway and Phil Simms, Kerry Collins had his best seasons as a QB when he played under Fassel. As has been mentioned, he's taken a team to the Super Bowl. And he knows how to deal with big-time media and intense scrutiny, having coached in New York...and his UFL team just won the championship.

There are certainly better options than Fassel but I don't understand why he gets such a bad rap either Beems. I can't understand why we so quickly dismiss the likes of Fassel, Fisher, and Schottenheimer because they've never won a Super Bowl in spite of all their success overall as head coaches in the NFL...yet we clamor for the likes of Cam Cameron, who could be just fine his second time around but hasn't accomplished nearly what the others have.

All that said, I'm thinking of jumping on the Gary Kubiak bandwagon. I know Tripp-clock management. But anyway, let the Texans have Mike Shanahan as GM/HC and give us Kubiak

I think we'd be much better off right now had we hired Fassel as HC and kept Zorn at OC.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

There are certainly better options than Fassel but I don't understand why he gets such a bad rap either Beems. I can't understand why we so quickly dismiss the likes of Fassel, Fisher, and Schottenheimer because they've never won a Super Bowl in spite of all their success overall as head coaches in the NFL...yet we clamor for the likes of Cam Cameron, who could be just fine his second time around but hasn't accomplished nearly what the others have.

Don't forget Jim Harbaugh too.