Our next coach??

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I know there are skeptics when it comes to Shanahan as a personnel evaluator. Since he basically had control over this area in Denver, though not the actual title of GM, I maintain that his success with the Broncos couldn't have been possible if he's as awful a personnel decision-maker as some seem to believe.

Here's what also know. His teams were pretty pedestrian his last few years there when the personnel was his and his only. He won superbowls with a HOF QB he didn't pick and a stud RB. He also had Gary Kubiak and Alex Gibb coaching his offense. On top of that his defenses were decent but not out of this world. I don't think there is a lot on his resume that screams "He is the guy to fix this team". He basically took an already successful team and pushed them over the top for a few years by adding a good RB. Once that formula dried up due to age he didn't duplicate it. It was downhill from there.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Here's what also know. His teams were pretty pedestrian his last few years there when the personnel was his and his only. He won superbowls with a HOF QB he didn't pick and a stud RB. He also had Gary Kubiak and Alex Gibb coaching his offense. On top of that his defenses were decent but not out of this world. I don't think there is a lot on his resume that screams "He is the guy to fix this team". He basically took an already successful team and pushed them over the top for a few years by adding a good RB. Once that formula dried up due to age he didn't duplicate it. It was downhill from there.

No, he didn't pick Elway, but Elway couldn't win without Shanahan after three tries in the Super Bowl. He took a successful team that couldn't win the big game, then proceeded to win the big game. It would also be quite a stretch to say that was all due to Kubiak and Alex Gibbs.

As I've said, the worst you could say is that he fell into the middle of the pack in his last few years. Maybe things got a bit stale in Denver, perhaps he got a little too comfortable there. But it's amazing how finishing up with a 9-7, 7-9, and 8-8 record after collecting two Lombardi trophies can turn a man into garbage in the eyes of some.

[Lotus]

I don't see Shanahan as garbage - he did win the big dance - but I don't see him as our answer, either.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

No, he didn't pick Elway, but Elway couldn't win without Shanahan after three tries in the Super Bowl. He took a successful team that couldn't win the big game, then proceeded to win the big game. It would also be quite a stretch to say that was all due to Kubiak and Alex Gibbs.

As I've said, the worst you could say is that he fell into the middle of the pack in his last few years. Maybe things got a bit stale in Denver, perhaps he got a little too comfortable there. But it's amazing how finishing up with a 9-7, 7-9, and 8-8 record after collecting two Lombardi trophies can turn a man into garbage in the eyes of some.

So are you officially a Shanahan advocate now?

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

So are you officially a Shanahan advocate now?

Without a doubt. He'd be my first choice. Behind him, probably Mike Holmgren, Marty (though that won't happen). Second tier guys for me would be Fassel, Mariucci, Gruden, Dungy. On my "Hell No" list is Bill Cowher and Russ Grimm.

What about you?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Without a doubt. He'd be my first choice. Behind him, probably Mike Holmgren, Marty (though that won't happen). Second tier guys for me would be Fassel, Mariucci, Gruden, Dungy. On my "Hell No" list is Bill Cowher and Russ Grimm.

What about you?

What don't you like about Cowher? What has convinced you about Shanahan?

[SFREDSKIN]

Surprise, surprise, won't be Holmgren.

Holmgren would like to talk return to Seahawks - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Without a doubt. He'd be my first choice. Behind him, probably Mike Holmgren, Marty (though that won't happen). Second tier guys for me would be Fassel, Mariucci, Gruden, Dungy. On my "Hell No" list is Bill Cowher and Russ Grimm.

What about you?

Honestly I'm undecided as far as who I would want, a few weeks ago I was in favor of Gruden, but it's looking like he'll be in the booth for another year at the least. Marty would be a strong choice but from all indications he's simply not interested in coming back. Ideally I would prefer to see a GM named first and go from there. But I doubt we'll see that happen.

I do think that Shanahan is a very strong possibility. If I was handicapping it I would say he's got to be the favorite.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Honestly I'm undecided as far as who I would want, a few weeks ago I was in favor of Gruden, but it's looking like he'll be in the booth for another year at the least. Marty would be a strong choice but from all indications he's simply not interested in coming back. Ideally I would prefer to see a GM named first and go from there. But I doubt we'll see that happen.

I do think that Shanahan is a very strong possibility. If I was handicapping it I would say he's got to be the favorite.

yes...Yes...YES TO THE HEAVENS!! HERE MY PLEA???? yes...GM first

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by Hog1

yes...Yes...YES TO THE HEAVENS!! HERE MY PLEA???? yes...GM first

Agreed for the most part but some HCs are good enough to pick their GMs or personnel guys.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Without a doubt. He'd be my first choice. Behind him, probably Mike Holmgren, Marty (though that won't happen). Second tier guys for me would be Fassel, Mariucci, Gruden, Dungy. On my "Hell No" list is Bill Cowher and Russ Grimm.

What about you?

As you noted, Mike Holmgren and Marty arent coaching ANYWHERE in 2009. The same applies to Gruden and Dungy. So, then, we're left with the following coaches, which you rank in this order: Shanahan, Fassel/Mariucci and Cowher/Grimm.

Lets take a look at these guys, shall we?

Name / Wins / Losses / Win % / Comments

Mike Shanahan / 146 / 98 / .598 / Won two superbowls in '97 and '98 with Elway. With the exception of the 2005 season, Shanahan hasn't won a playoff game in over a decade. In a "what have you done for me lately league," Shanahan hasn't done anything in recent history to justify giving him total control of our franchise.

Jim Fassel / 58 / 53 / .522 / Only 1 superbowl appearance (2007 season) when he lost to the Giants in Superbowl. That season aside, his team never won a playoff game. In seven years, his team average a record slightly above .500. He has a proven record of mediocrity in the NFL. Yes, his team just won the UFL title, but that whole league is a joke. There are only 4 teams, for goodness sakes.

Steve Mariucci / 72 / 67 / .518 / Has never appeard in the superbowl. The best one of his teams ever did was lose to the packers in '97 in the NFC championship game. Now, if you wanted to forgive his years in Detroit because he was working under Matt Millen, his record with the 49ers was pretty good (57 / 39 .594). However, when you consider who he'd be working for here, i think we'd be more likely to see Lion-esque performances from his teams.

Russ Grimm / 0 / 0 / 0 / He used to be a Hog. Thats it.

Bill Cowher / 149 / 90 / .623 / He has the best record of any head coach available. He also has the longest sample-size to look at - 15 years. In that time, his team made the playoffs 10 times. 9 of those times, his team had 1st round byes. 7 of those times, his team appeared in the AFC Championship game. What this means is that 50% of the time, his team was one of the top 4 in the NFL. He appeared in 2 superbowls and won the most recent. The man wakes up in the morning and pisses excellence.

So, what exactly is it about excellence that you don't like?

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Mike Shanahan / 146 / 98 / .598 / Won two superbowls in '97 and '98 with Elway. With the exception of the 2005 season, Shanahan hasn't won a playoff game in over a decade. In a "what have you done for me lately league," Shanahan hasn't done anything in recent history to justify giving him total control of our franchise.

BHA thats alil misleading on shanahan to try and prove your point.

2 SB wins but that was all elway and davis right? dungys was all manning, belichecks was all brady, shulas was all marino . .

the rate the broncos went to the playoffs under shanahan is alot better than weve done the past decade, with or without exceptions.

go skins!!

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

BHA thats alil misleading on shanahan to try and prove your point.

2 SB wins but that was all elway and davis right? dungys was all manning, belichecks was all brady, shulas was all marino . .

the rate the broncos went to the playoffs under shanahan is alot better than weve done the past decade, with or without exceptions.

go skins!!

Its not misleading at all. Shany had TEN YEARS after Elway to do something. One of those years, the broncos made the AFC title game. 6 of those years the broncos failed to make the playoffs. in he remaining 3, shanahans broncos were one and done in the wild card round. I clearly said that this is a "what have you done for me lately" league and Shany hasnt done anything above mediocre lately. Should he be on Snyder's short list of coaches to interview? absolutely. Would I rather have him than Fassel? its a toss-up. But in no circumstances should Shanahan be at the top of anyone's list. In fact, if I were running the team and was "forced" to chose between giving shanahan total control and pairing up mooch with a proven, competent GM, i'd absolutely go with mooch. no question.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

As you noted, Mike Holmgren and Marty arent coaching ANYWHERE in 2009. The same applies to Gruden and Dungy. So, then, we're left with the following coaches, which you rank in this order: Shanahan, Fassel/Mariucci and Cowher/Grimm.

Lets take a look at these guys, shall we?

Name / Wins / Losses / Win % / Comments

Mike Shanahan / 146 / 98 / .598 / Won two superbowls in '97 and '98 with Elway. With the exception of the 2005 season, Shanahan hasn't won a playoff game in over a decade. In a "what have you done for me lately league," Shanahan hasn't done anything in recent history to justify giving him total control of our franchise.

Jim Fassel / 58 / 53 / .522 / Only 1 superbowl appearance (2007 season) when he lost to the Giants in Superbowl. That season aside, his team never won a playoff game. In seven years, his team average a record slightly above .500. He has a proven record of mediocrity in the NFL. Yes, his team just won the UFL title, but that whole league is a joke. There are only 4 teams, for goodness sakes.

Steve Mariucci / 72 / 67 / .518 / Has never appeard in the superbowl. The best one of his teams ever did was lose to the packers in '97 in the NFC championship game. Now, if you wanted to forgive his years in Detroit because he was working under Matt Millen, his record with the 49ers was pretty good (57 / 39 .594). However, when you consider who he'd be working for here, i think we'd be more likely to see Lion-esque performances from his teams.

Russ Grimm / 0 / 0 / 0 / He used to be a Hog. Thats it.

Bill Cowher / 149 / 90 / .623 / He has the best record of any head coach available. He also has the longest sample-size to look at - 15 years. In that time, his team made the playoffs 10 times. 9 of those times, his team had 1st round byes. 7 of those times, his team appeared in the AFC Championship game. What this means is that 50% of the time, his team was one of the top 4 in the NFL. He appeared in 2 superbowls and won the most recent. The man wakes up in the morning and pisses excellence.

So, what exactly is it about excellence that you don't like?

Funny how Shanahan won two Super Bowls "with Elway" but your favorite coach didn't win the Super Bowl "with Roethlisberger".

Generally speaking, I prefer offensive-minded head coaches. I'd make an exception for Marty Schottenheimer, and a few others. But with Cowher, I just feel like his stock is a bit overrated. When the flock says to go with conventional wisdom, and Cowher seems to be what the flock wants, I go the other way. Cowher lost a bunch of home playoff games before finally reaching the summit. With offense being our biggest problem, Cowher with his 'defense-first' mentality would only place it on the back-burner.

I'm simply not as sold about Cowher just as others apparently feel the same way about Shanahan. Ultimately, I agree with the sentiment that as long as our bumbling, inept front office stays intact, it won't matter who the head coach is.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Funny how Shanahan won two Super Bowls "with Elway" but your favorite coach didn't win the Super Bowl "with Roethlisberger".

Generally speaking, I prefer offensive-minded head coaches. I'd make an exception for Marty Schottenheimer, and a few others. But with Cowher, I just feel like his stock is a bit overrated. When the flock says to go with conventional wisdom, and Cowher seems to be what the flock wants, I go the other way. Cowher lost a bunch of home playoff games before finally reaching the summit. With offense being our biggest problem, Cowher with his 'defense-first' mentality would only place it on the back-burner.

I'm simply not as sold about Cowher just as others apparently feel the same way about Shanahan. Ultimately, I agree with the sentiment that as long as our bumbling, inept front office stays intact, it won't matter who the head coach is.

Exactly. Does it really matter which coach comes here?