Some Things Never Change (WP:RI Article)

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Vinny would have been absolutely blasted here if he had drafted 5'10" DeSean Jackson to play alongside 5'10" Santana Moss and 5'10" Antwaan Randle El.

The Eagles have failed time and time again when it comes to selecting WRs. Good for them on Jackson...but Devin Thomas will be just as good

Agreed. One of our biggest problems the past few years was that we had no big red zone targets for Campbell. In 2008, we drafted 3 of them. In 2010, i fully expect Thomas to be a starting WR and Kelly or Mitchell to be our #3 posession WR. Whoever our next coach is, he's going to find a way to get Davis and Cooley on the field together a lot. Moving Cooley back to H-back/TE is a possibility that others have suggested.

Hopefully, the new coaching staff will keep Campbell around for another year and resist the urge to draft one of the vastly overrated QBs in the 1st round. However, even if they make a "dumb" move and draft a QB in the 1st and OT in the 2nd (see 2008 Falcons), then the rookie QB will benefit from having 5 BIG targets to throw at (Davis, Kelly, Thomas, Cooley, and Mitchell). One of the biggest problems rookie quarterbacks experience is how fast the NFL is and how accurate their throws must be since NFL DBs dont let WRs get open nearly as much as their college counterparts. Big, phisical receivers are a rookie QBs best friend.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Vinny would have been absolutely blasted here if he had drafted 5'10" DeSean Jackson to play alongside 5'10" Santana Moss and 5'10" Antwaan Randle El.

The Eagles have failed time and time again when it comes to selecting WRs. Good for them on Jackson...but Devin Thomas will be just as good

How tall was Gary Clark? I've been right next the guy and he can't be more than 5'10. Again it doesn't matter how big and strong a guy is. It's comes down to can he play football. So far Jackson is miles ahead of Thomas. I hope Thomas can come on but right now it's not even close.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

How tall was Gary Clark? I've been right next the guy and he can't be more than 5'10. Again it doesn't matter how big and strong a guy is. It's comes down to can he play football. So far Jackson is miles ahead of Thomas. I hope Thomas can come on but right now it's not even close.

I love when people make the other side's argument. Gary Clark was good, but without Monk he would have had less of the career. We have this teams Gary Clark in Santana, we needed a Monk, and may have found one in DT at least last game, the way he pulled away from receivers.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Vinny would have been absolutely blasted here if he had drafted 5'10" DeSean Jackson to play alongside 5'10" Santana Moss and 5'10" Antwaan Randle El.

The Eagles have failed time and time again when it comes to selecting WRs. Good for them on Jackson...but Devin Thomas will be just as good

Seriously, everyone and their mother was banging on the "we need a big WR" drum back then.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I remember Vinny saying one reason they passed on Jackson was because they wanted to get bigger wr's for the WCO. See this is why Vinny is a dumb ass. You don't draft guys just cause they're big, or can run fast, or look good in their uniforms. IMO you draft guys on production...then all the other stuff comes 2nd. Now if he did that and paid attention to Jackson's body of work then he should've been a Redskin over Davis. Plus Jackson would've filled a GLARING need which is on punt returns. Total fail on Vinny's part.

Well in all fairness, if Jackson had been drafted, he would never have broken into the lineup, because Santana hasn't been injured. So he would have been inactive most of the first year, and some of this. Also, why would we have put him in to return kicks, we had others who could return kicks on the roster, and we never replaced ARE, so Jackson would not have done that either. And last I checked a 2nd rounder who only returns kicks would get the same criticism as every other draft pick gets around here.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Well in all fairness, if Jackson had been drafted, he would never have broken into the lineup, because Santana hasn't been injured. So he would have been inactive most of the first year, and some of this. Also, why would we have put him in to return kicks, we had others who could return kicks on the roster, and we never replaced ARE, so Jackson would not have done that either. And last I checked a 2nd rounder who only returns kicks would get the same criticism as every other draft pick gets around here.

How in the world would he have been inactive? He also could've split time w/ ARE and eventually beat him out. And sorry but a guy that's as fast as Jackson, plus add in the skill set and his ass would've been on the field right away.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

How in the world would he have been inactive? He also could've split time w/ ARE and eventually beat him out. And sorry but a guy that's as fast as Jackson, plus add in the skill set and his ass would've been on the field right away.

Because that is how our coaching staff has operated. No one has just come on, except Orakpo, and started in front of named position players. Although we will never know, I am more than willing to bet that DJ would have been a bust here in DC (remember his first non-TD? he wouldn't have seen the field again!)

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

How in the world would he have been inactive? He also could've split time w/ ARE and eventually beat him out. And sorry but a guy that's as fast as Jackson, plus add in the skill set and his ass would've been on the field right away.

Marko Mitchell could be a world beater too, but the Redskin way is to bring them along slowly unless a starter is injured. I think that's the point CRedskinsRule is trying to make. Who knows how long it would have taken the coaches to trust Jackson enough to actually throw to him? Personally I think DT may end up being better than Jackson.

[skins89moss]

Originally Posted by mlmdub130

desaen jackson was drafted right after fred davis, and ray rice was drafted three or four spots behind kelly, not to mention we needed lineman in both of thoose drafts and we got one, vinny is terrible personell guy

So what how many other teams passed on those players? We had Moss / ARE small WR on the roster at the time. You win some you lose some.

[mlmdub130]

thomas was a good pickup we did need a big wide out, we didn't need a te and we sure as hell didn't need two wide outs, and could have used a younger back, and we needed LINEMEN

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by mlmdub130

thomas was a good pickup we did need a big wide out, we didn't need a te and we sure as hell didn't need two wide outs, and could have used a younger back, and we needed LINEMEN

we needed WR's a hell of alot more than we needed a younger back. While our offensive line still needs help, our defensive line has been dramatically upgraded over the past two years (Haynesworth, Jackson, Jarmon, and Orakpo). Are you going to complain no matter what the front office does? I bet if they draft o-linemen this year, you'll complain they didnt address some other position.

I know alot of people dont like acknowledging this, but Joe Jackson Gibbs set this franchise back several years by trading draft picks and stockpiling on old veteran players in an attempt to reach the superbowl. Not only did he fail to win more than one playoff game, but didnt develop young talent and left this team with the oldest roster in the NFL. He essentially put all of our chips on the table, went "all in," and lost. There's absolutely nothing any GM could have done in the past 2 years to put us in a noteably better situation (personnel wise) than we are now.

[mlmdub130]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

we needed WR's a hell of alot more than we needed a younger back. While our offensive line still needs help, our defensive line has been dramatically upgraded over the past two years (Haynesworth, Jackson, Jarmon, and Orakpo). Are you going to complain no matter what the front office does? I bet if they draft o-linemen this year, you'll complain they didnt address some other position.

I know alot of people dont like acknowledging this, but Joe Jackson Gibbs set this franchise back several years by trading draft picks and stockpiling on old veteran players in an attempt to reach the superbowl. Not only did he fail to win more than one playoff game, but didnt develop young talent and left this team with the oldest roster in the NFL. He essentially put all of our chips on the table, went "all in," and lost. There's absolutely nothing any GM could have done in the past 2 years to put us in a noteably better situation (personnel wise) than we are now.

how many of our starting wr are still on the feild???? did we really need another no we didn't

and i will agree we got set back during thoose years but do you think it was all joe, i know i don't

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

we needed WR's a hell of alot more than we needed a younger back. While our offensive line still needs help, our defensive line has been dramatically upgraded over the past two years (Haynesworth, Jackson, Jarmon, and Orakpo). Are you going to complain no matter what the front office does? I bet if they draft o-linemen this year, you'll complain they didnt address some other position.

I know alot of people dont like acknowledging this, but Joe Jackson Gibbs set this franchise back several years by trading draft picks and stockpiling on old veteran players in an attempt to reach the superbowl. Not only did he fail to win more than one playoff game, but didnt develop young talent and left this team with the oldest roster in the NFL. He essentially put all of our chips on the table, went "all in," and lost. There's absolutely nothing any GM could have done in the past 2 years to put us in a noteably better situation (personnel wise) than we are now.

I've been saying that same thing, that Gibbs 4 years set the franchise back 8 years. He tried to sprint and fell short and now we're trying to catch up.

As ready as I am to let Vinny go, I've also said that he probably had a 3 year plan based on the major roster deficiencies from the Gibbs era, pass catchers, DL/Pass rush, OL:

Year one - Pass catchers and special teams.. 3 2nd round picks on pass catchers, depth picks in Tryon, Jackson, Horton - guys who were athletic but weren't expected to make an impact based on draft slot and Durant Brooks. Colt was a flyer who if he turned into something then great but if not, he was just a 6th round pick anyways.

Year two defensive line/pass rush.. Haynesworth, Orakpo, Jarmon.. Barnes was depth/potential replacement for Rogers, the rest of the picks were special teams/depth picks

Year three OL/QB/RB. I don't think (I hope) that Vinny will get to the point to make the decisions this offseason but I have to think this was the plan.

Our OL wasn't a disaster after 2007 but was aging. It wasn't a disaster starting 2008 but clearly needed to be addressed. Vinny's biggest mistake was the inability to effectively adjust the plan when needed.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

we needed WR's a hell of alot more than we needed a younger back. While our offensive line still needs help, our defensive line has been dramatically upgraded over the past two years (Haynesworth, Jackson, Jarmon, and Orakpo). Are you going to complain no matter what the front office does? I bet if they draft o-linemen this year, you'll complain they didnt address some other position.

I know alot of people dont like acknowledging this, but Joe Jackson Gibbs set this franchise back several years by trading draft picks and stockpiling on old veteran players in an attempt to reach the superbowl. Not only did he fail to win more than one playoff game, but didnt develop young talent and left this team with the oldest roster in the NFL. He essentially put all of our chips on the table, went "all in," and lost. There's absolutely nothing any GM could have done in the past 2 years to put us in a noteably better situation (personnel wise) than we are now.

Agreed.

[InsaneBoost]

Campbell on fire with a shitty line, yet they want a rookie with a shitty line.

Dumbest fucks on the Earth, plain and simple.