Campbell's numbers dont lie

[44 70 chip]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

You can compare Romo and JC's numbers all day but unless they played with the same team mates, coaches, system and circumstances it really doesn't amount to much.

Well nothing in life is judged from a perfectly level playing field, least of all football players. It's not fair... but that's life. Absolutely everyone is judged on how they perform with little to no curve or weighting given to circumstances or surroundings or other factors...

The kicker screwed the pooch and got fired, well... the snap was high, and... NO he got fired... Vinny Cerrato is an awful GM, well he did hit with Davis and Orakpo and Snyder is meddlsome; No fire him! Zorn is a bad HC: well, he's such a nice man, he's taken a lot of BS from his employer and he's learning on the job, and to be fair he had no experience; sorry fire him! Campbell has averaged 1 TD a game career, and only 0.2 less INT's than an undrafted free agent who is averaging 2... Well.... Campbell's a nice guy, and he's had to learn new system, and he's had his feelings hurt when the team looked at other guys... And: No... sorry...

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 44 70 chip

Well nothing in life is judged from a perfectly level playing field, least of all football players. It's not fair... but that's life. Absolutely everyone is judged on how they perform with little to no curve or weighting given to circumstances or surroundings or other factors...

The kicker screwed the pooch and got fired, well... the snap was high, and... NO he got fired... Vinny Cerrato is an awful GM, well he did hit with Davis and Orakpo and Snyder is meddlsome; No fire him! Zorn is a bad HC: well, he's such a nice man, he's taken a lot of BS from his employer and he's learning on the job, and to be fair he had no experience; sorry fire him! Campbell has averaged 1 TD a game career, and only 0.2 less INT's than an undrafted free agent who is averaging 2... Well.... Campbell's a nice guy, and he's had to learn new system, and he's had his feelings hurt when the team looked at other guys... And: No... sorry...

The bottom line though is he's done a pretty good job. That, in my mind, is indisputable.

But because we're 3-9, he's at least somewhat replaceable. If we can lose with him, we can certainly lose without him. So you've got to at least shop him in the offseason, I would think.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by 44 70 chip

Well nothing in life is judged from a perfectly level playing field, least of all football players. It's not fair... but that's life. Absolutely everyone is judged on how they perform with little to no curve or weighting given to circumstances or surroundings or other factors...

The kicker screwed the pooch and got fired, well... the snap was high, and... NO he got fired... Vinny Cerrato is an awful GM, well he did hit with Davis and Orakpo and Snyder is meddlsome; No fire him! Zorn is a bad HC: well, he's such a nice man, he's taken a lot of BS from his employer and he's learning on the job, and to be fair he had no experience; sorry fire him! Campbell has averaged 1 TD a game career, and only 0.2 less INT's than an undrafted free agent who is averaging 2... Well.... Campbell's a nice guy, and he's had to learn new system, and he's had his feelings hurt when the team looked at other guys... And: No... sorry...

Drinking and posting is never a good look.

[44 70 chip]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Drinking and posting is never a good look.

Those are examples of situations in life where a guy doesn't get be evaluated on a level playing field with every mitigating factor considered before an (often harsh) judgment is made... IMO This is actually an interesting argument so, really try and bring something better than Smiley's and short generic highly unoriginal pot shots.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 44 70 chip

Those are examples of situations in life where a guy doesn't get be evaluated on a level playing field with every mitigating factor considered before an (often harsh) judgment is made... IMO This is actually an interesting argument so, really try and bring something better than Smiley's and short generic highly unoriginal pot shots.

This is only true of bad organizations.

[44 70 chip]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

This is only true of bad organizations.

IMO it's true of every facet of life regardless of good or bad... Anyway that's besides the point.

If we can't compare Romo to Campbell then we can';t compare any football player to any other Football player (or team or coach or anything else).

I don't know how we evaluate ANY QB if we have to put them on the exact same team, playing the same schedule etc. How many of you are willing to commit to that philosophy? You can't Judge Zorn against Bill Belicheck can't judge Snyder against Cook... different circumstances, players, etc.

Are some of you guys going to go that far just because you can't stand that Romo is a better QB than Jason Campbell? Don't hate me because I'm being honest, I dislike Romo but I'm not going to lie to myself

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 44 70 chip

IMO it's true of every facet of life regardless of good or bad... Anyway that's besides the point.

If we can't compare Romo to Campbell then we can';t compare any football player to any other Football player (or team or coach or anything else).

I don't know how we evaluate ANY QB if we have to put them on the exact same team, playing the same schedule etc. How many of you are willing to commit to that philosophy? You can't Judge Zorn against Bill Belicheck can't judge Snyder against Cook... different circumstances, players, etc.

Are some of you guys going to go that far just because you can't stand that Romo is a better QB than Jason Campbell? Don't hate me because I'm being honest, I dislike Romo but I'm not going to lie to myself

Some comparisons are better than others. Tony Romo is a much better quarterback than Jason Campbell. Romo is also a very flawed player in his own right, but given all of his strengths and weaknesses, he's still the best quarterback in the division. You can look at all the stats to see this, you can look at overall offensive production, etc.

It's also not really a conversation worth having. Campbell has done pretty well for himself here. If Romo were here and Campbell were there, the gap between their numbers would be basically non-existant. Romo would never be an 8.0 YPA passer with the Redskins. Just wouldn't happen. Campbell's improvement to 7.4 this year is pretty remarkable all things considered: clearly, he's squeezing every last drop of potential out of the offense.

And what's the end game? 3-9, underachieving their true potential by about two or three games because in crunch time, our pass defense goes to oblivion and Campbell seems to rush his decision making to avoid sack? That's where we are. We could bring in a rookie quarterback and rebuild while we're paying all that money to the defense to be mediocre, but that's not going to stop the disappointment.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by 44 70 chip

Well nothing in life is judged from a perfectly level playing field, least of all football players. It's not fair... but that's life. Absolutely everyone is judged on how they perform with little to no curve or weighting given to circumstances or surroundings or other factors...

What you describe above is a great way to make inaccurate value judgements.
If the circumstances aren't consider you cannot make an accurate assessment.
Imo, its this type exact type of thinking that's probably lead to our poor personnel decisions.

For example Cutler is the same QB he was with the Broncos he didn't get worse, but if you made a value judgement based on his stats alone without considering the circumstances you would now be surprised by his supposed lack of production in Chicago.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 30gut

What you describe above is a great way to make inaccurate value judgements.
If the circumstances aren't consider you cannot make an accurate assessment.
Imo, its this type exact type of thinking that's probably lead to our poor personnel decisions.

For example Cutler is the same QB he was with the Broncos he didn't get worse, but if you made a value judgement based on his stats alone without considering the circumstances you would now be surprised by his supposed lack of production in Chicago.

That's about as well as I could have said it. The statistics are critical to understanding player value, but they're useless if you can't read them properly.