Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Raiders)

[Coff]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Overall, nice to finally get a win after weeks of coming so close. Cerrato and the front office have given us some pieces to build with....still think there will be and should be changes in the coaching staff and front office though

Would you still be convinced if the Skins win out? And what does the team have to do to earn Zorn one more year?

There are a lot of coaches out there better than Zorn, but it's been a characteristic of the organization to make abrupt coaching changes just when signs of serious improvement are being seen. We saw it with Marty and then with Gibbs when they brought in a new OC.
I believe we're starting to see big improvements with this team and its system.

I wanted Zorn gone as much as anyone six games ago, and I've been an outspoken critic of JC since day one, but I'm starting to think that given the chance for proper maturation, we may have the ingredients for success.

What cannot be denied is that Zorn has this team playing its heart out with absolutely nothing to play for.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Coff

Would you still be convinced if the Skins win out? And what does the team have to do to earn Zorn one more year?

There are a lot of coaches out there better than Zorn, but it's been a characteristic of the organization to make abrupt coaching changes just when signs of serious improvement are being seen. We saw it with Marty and then with Gibbs when they brought in a new OC.
I believe we're starting to see big improvements with this team and its system.

I wanted Zorn gone as much as anyone six games ago, and I've been an outspoken critic of JC since day one, but I'm starting to think that given the chance for proper maturation, we may have the ingredients for success.

What cannot be denied is that Zorn has this team playing its heart out with absolutely nothing to play for.

Well I did say coaching staff...not necessarily head coach

Seriously though, I go back and forth on it. Zorn seems like a good guy and I'd love for him to succeed here but I don't know what value he brings. I mean is it really undeniable that it's Zorn that has this team playing its heart out? Because where was that heart at the end of last year against teams like Cincy and San Fran? Where was it at the beginning of this year against the Lions and Chiefs of the league?

[Coff]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Well I did say coaching staff...not necessarily head coach

Seriously though, I go back and forth on it. Zorn seems like a good guy and I'd love for him to succeed here but I don't know what value he brings. I mean is it really undeniable that it's Zorn that has this team playing its heart out? Because where was that heart at the end of last year against teams like Cincy and San Fran? Where was it at the beginning of this year against the Lions and Chiefs of the league?

Perhaps it's all part of the learning curve; maybe it's the confidence due to Sherman Lewis' play-calling; I don't know. But we're seeing improvement. I'd hate to have to watch the Skins start over from square one again, especially when improvement is shown.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Coff

Perhaps it's all part of the learning curve; maybe it's the confidence due to Sherman Lewis' play-calling; I don't know. But we're seeing improvement. I'd hate to have to watch the Skins start over from square one again, especially when improvement is shown.

I think we have a young enough core now, that bringing in a new coaching staff would be ok. In fact, I might go as far as to say if next year is again a tryout year, then might as well bring in the new staff now. Without knowing exactly how the duties are being handled, it's real hard to say who gets the credit for the heart this team seems to be showing.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Well I did say coaching staff...not necessarily head coach

Seriously though, I go back and forth on it. Zorn seems like a good guy and I'd love for him to succeed here but I don't know what value he brings. I mean is it really undeniable that it's Zorn that has this team playing its heart out? Because where was that heart at the end of last year against teams like Cincy and San Fran? Where was it at the beginning of this year against the Lions and Chiefs of the league?

Right now, Zorn's value is Shanahan not being here.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Well I did say coaching staff...not necessarily head coach

Seriously though, I go back and forth on it. Zorn seems like a good guy and I'd love for him to succeed here but I don't know what value he brings. I mean is it really undeniable that it's Zorn that has this team playing its heart out? Because where was that heart at the end of last year against teams like Cincy and San Fran? Where was it at the beginning of this year against the Lions and Chiefs of the league?

I hope the staff comes back next year. Tearing it apart and starting over is not what this team needs.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I hope the staff comes back next year. Tearing it apart and starting over is not what this team needs.

Wouldn't it be the ultimate form of justice if Zorn is allowed to come back and Vinny gets fired? Ironically Vinny's decision to hire Sherm Lewis is the reason the offense has turned around but in all honesty the guy has no idea how to build a football team, only how to add good players here and there, but as far as an overall team I believe he virtually has no idea.

If we do get a new head coach next year I think that we can't settle for anyone less then Holmgren. Shannahan's ok, but if you want to do that 'keep the coaches and hire a new head coach' deal then you need to hire a guy thats familiar with what the previous regime set up, as well as our best offensive weapon (Sherm Lewis).

Another possibility would be to swallow your pride, fire Vinny, and bring in GW. Gibbs would probably have to mediate but at the same time you could keep the current offense in tact, along with the key coaches that would like to come back, like Buges, Gray, and even Blache. My one concern would be GW's reputation as a conservative head coach but after seeing what happened in New Orleans I can imagine that a change in philosophy could be in order.

Earlier I would have been all for Gruden coming in but given the level of complexity in his offense (even though it's a variation on the WCO) I'd have a hard time getting on board. Not saying that I wouldn't but it isn't the type of thing that I'd be as happy about as I was say a month or two ago.

Either way the one constant in all these scenarios is getting rid of Vinny.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I hope the staff comes back next year. Tearing it apart and starting over is not what this team needs.

Your killing me. This regime had 8 games last year where it failed to put points on the board and failed to fix the problem. Then 8 games at the beginning of this season we see the same thing. Why would we want to keep status quo? Zorn was in control of the last 2 min. of the games and still did horrible. Our only saving grace has been an aged Bingo caller who kindly decided to come and fix our problem.

Coaching is all about looking at what you have and adjusting your offense for the talent you have in order to get something out of them. Zorn and Co. failed at this for 16 games. Sherm Lewis came in and adjusted the offensive scheme to its players. Genius, pure Genius.

[rypper11]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Your killing me. This regime had 8 games last year where it failed to put points on the board and failed to fix the problem. Then 8 games at the beginning of this season we see the same thing. Why would we want to keep status quo? Zorn was in control of the last 2 min. of the games and still did horrible. Our only saving grace has been an aged Bingo caller who kindly decided to come and fix our problem.

Coaching is all about looking at what you have and adjusting your offense for the talent you have in order to get something out of them. Zorn and Co. failed at this for 16 games. Sherm Lewis came in and adjusted the offensive scheme to its players. Genius, pure Genius.

It's still Zorn's offense and he installs the gameplan and he and Smith coordinate and coach during the week. Sherm Lewis gets a copy of the gameplan and calls the plays (at least the passing ones and if it will be a run) on Sunday. JC has said repeatedly that he rarely, if ever, talks with Lewis. IMO, Lewis' has showed that Zorn was simply wearing too many hats and couldn't execute them all. Rather than focusing on the next three plays so one is ready the second the play is over, he's running the sideline, working the officials (though he still has a lot to learn on that) and offering insight. Minor changes to the coaching staff is to be expected, but don't blow it up. Since the second half of the Falcons game this team has fought hard and played well.
If it's not the coaches embracing their roles, then it has to be that CP brings the team down.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by rypper11

It's still Zorn's offense and he installs the gameplan and he and Smith coordinate and coach during the week. Sherm Lewis gets a copy of the gameplan and calls the plays (at least the passing ones and if it will be a run) on Sunday. JC has said repeatedly that he rarely, if ever, talks with Lewis. IMO, Lewis' has showed that Zorn was simply wearing too many hats and couldn't execute them all. Rather than focusing on the next three plays so one is ready the second the play is over, he's running the sideline, working the officials (though he still has a lot to learn on that) and offering insight. Minor changes to the coaching staff is to be expected, but don't blow it up. Since the second half of the Falcons game this team has fought hard and played well.
If it's not the coaches embracing their roles, then it has to be that CP brings the team down.

Ok, maybe you and everyone telling us this is correct and not a lie. I for one don't buy it. 16 games of 17 or less points put on the board. 16 games of mediocracy. 16 games where the coaching staff could not figure out what the hell was going on. Sherm Lewis is brought in and Ta Daa. I'm getting the feeling it's more like Sherm Lewis draws up the game plan, perhaps with Sherm Smith, and it's handed to the HC to get the players on board with what they are going to be trying to do in the next game. I know all the pundits and media have asked and we keep hearing how it's handed up to him and "approved" or "tweeked" by Lewis but I get the feeling it's more the opposite way around. God forbid people heard Lewis designes everything and simply has Zorn coaching the players in how to empliment it.