Haynesworth Appreciation Thread

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by tdSKINS1

How can you say that when he obviously made a significant difference in our pass rush this year? The guy is an absolute presence and if he wasn't double teamed half the time you would see how effective he really is. 53 said it right if you asked an opposing team if they wanted him in or out against them what do you think they would say?

Then why does our defense suck? If the pass rush is so damn good then why do we constantly give up long pass plays? Where was the pass rush last night? I don't give a damn about beating up Oakland or Tampa bay or STL. We need that pass rush to beat the NYG.

Look, I like our defense for the most part and they keep the score down most of the time. But has Haynesworth really made us a dominant defense? No. We're not better than last year and you could argue that we're worse. As I said I would've got Tank Johnson and maybe Chris Canty, add in Orakpo and called it a day.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Then why does our defense suck? If the pass rush is so damn good then why do we constantly give up long pass plays? Where was the pass rush last night? I don't give a damn about beating up Oakland or Tampa bay or STL. We need that pass rush to beat the NYG.

Look, I like our defense for the most part and they keep the score down most of the time. But has Haynesworth really made us a dominant defense? No. We're not better than last year and you could argue that we're worse. As I said I would've got Tank Johnson and maybe Chris Canty, add in Orakpo and called it a day.

It's damn sure not because of AH. You can't really believe that AH taking KG or AM's spot is what has caused this defense to decline. There's a lot more to it than that, like our secondary sucking ass most of this season. All the talk about Landry missing tackles, Rogers biting on double moves and you're going to blame AH? Get real.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

It's damn sure not because of AH. You can't really believe that AH taking KG or AM's spot is what has caused this defense to decline. There's a lot more to it than that, like our secondary sucking ass most of this season. All the talk about Landry missing tackles, Rogers biting on double moves and you're going to blame AH? Get real.

What I'm saying is he hasn't made the defense better. He's not dominating. He makes a nice play here and there but he not making a difference cause again he has no stamina. Reggie White made a difference and for the money he's making I want someone like Reggie White.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

What I'm saying is he hasn't made the defense better. He's not dominating. He makes a nice play here and there but he not making a difference cause again he has no stamina. Reggie White made a difference and for the money he's making I want someone like Reggie White.

Well I think he is dominating. And I think he's made the line better. The problem is he can't run down the field and do Landry or Rogers job too. Reggie White was a special player. AH is not RW, he may never be, but he's pretty damn good when he's in there. If he wants to reach that level he's going to have to work a lot harder in the offseason on his stamina, I mean you're comparing him to one of the greatest players of all time, but he's the best DT we have and one of the best, if not the best in the league right now.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

What I'm saying is he hasn't made the defense better. He's not dominating. He makes a nice play here and there but he not making a difference cause again he has no stamina. Reggie White made a difference and for the money he's making I want someone like Reggie White.

You are completely incorrect. The increased sack numbers for AC and at least half of those by Orakpo can be directly attributed to the presence of AH. We knew what we were getting with him, you get a difference-making 1-tech DT for about 67-70% of the defensive snaps each season. The FO felt he was worth it and I agree. If the salary cap goes away, he is nothing but a positive as long as he stays healthy (no seasone-ending injuries, but that could be said about any player). We just need to take into consideration that he won't be on the field 30% of the time and make sure we have a good DT rotation, which at this point I believe is the least of our worries.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

You are completely incorrect. The increased sack numbers for AC and at least half of those by Orakpo can be directly attributed to the presence of AH. We knew what we were getting with him, you get a difference-making 1-tech DT for about 67-70% of the defensive snaps each season. The FO felt he was worth it and I agree. If the salary cap goes away, he is nothing but a positive as long as he stays healthy (no seasone-ending injuries, but that could be said about any player). We just need to take into consideration that he won't be on the field 30% of the time and make sure we have a good DT rotation, which at this point I believe is the least of our worries.

I've only broken down about two halves since the bye week, so I'm hardly an expert on the last seven games, but my take is that Carter and Orakpo are doing what they are doing independant of what Haynesworth is providing. I don't really see Haynesworth collapsing the pocket to help them.

What I frequently do see is a guy who is playing his gap, and winning his one on ones very consistently. I'm just a bit surprised that so many teams are going 1 v 1 on Haynesworth, and I'm very surprised he hasn't had a bigger impact.

With that said, his effect on a game is clear every time he takes the field. Haynesworth goes 100% on nearly every play, and I just wish he could stay healthy. I just don't think his effect on a game is being reflected in Orakpo's or Carter's numbers.

As to his salary: it's almost unheard of to be able to add an impact player without giving up a draft pick. A lot of Haynesworth's salary is simply the difference between a free-market acquisition, and an extension given to a player who we traded a high draft pick to get. It was worth it, but the potential downside is staying with the player too long because you owe him money.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I've only broken down about two halves since the bye week, so I'm hardly an expert on the last seven games, but my take is that Carter and Orakpo are doing what they are doing independant of what Haynesworth is providing. I don't really see Haynesworth collapsing the pocket to help them.

What I frequently do see is a guy who is playing his gap, and winning his one on ones very consistently. I'm just a bit surprised that so many teams are going 1 v 1 on Haynesworth, and I'm very surprised he hasn't had a bigger impact.

With that said, his effect on a game is clear every time he takes the field. Haynesworth goes 100% on nearly every play, and I just wish he could stay healthy. I just don't think his effect on a game is being reflected in Orakpo's or Carter's numbers.

As to his salary: it's almost unheard of to be able to add an impact player without giving up a draft pick. A lot of Haynesworth's salary is simply the difference between a free-market acquisition, and an extension given to a player who we traded a high draft pick to get. It was worth it, but the potential downside is staying with the player too long because you owe him money.

I'm not sure man

I don't see Carter coming back this year and vanden bosch only having 3 sacks without AH being an influence on that.. tripp you have pretty numbers, but pretty numbers are often very analytical and don't have as much to do with the overall picture.. I get why some stats are come out with and how you follow the fballo's but there's a lot more to it

seeing the overall picture helps with that.. which I think that you do mostly well, but I think that maybe you put too much focus on these stats that matter to those that make them up, but won't be a part of major stats for awhile

honestly there's a gap to be bridged between them because they both matter, but they can be far extremes as well

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

I'm not sure man

I don't see Carter coming back this year and vanden bosch only having 3 sacks without AH being an influence on that.. tripp you have pretty numbers, but pretty numbers are often very analytical and don't have as much to do with the overall picture.. I get why some stats are come out with and how you follow the fballo's but there's a lot more to it

seeing the overall picture helps with that.. which I think that you do mostly well, but I think that maybe you put too much focus on these stats that matter to those that make them up, but won't be a part of major stats for awhile

honestly there's a gap to be bridged between them because they both matter, but they can be far extremes as well

The above post had not one thing to do with stats. I can pull out all sorts of fancy metrics that pinpoint exactly where our defense ranks and what our pass rush ranks and such, but there's nothing that would justify the above.

Like you said, I think the Titans are missing him, but he had 8 sacks last year with them. I think our scheme is primarily responsible for the downturn in production. And I think he's been great here, particularly in short yardage situations. I think there's a whole number of stats that would show his impact for our team. But ultimately, I feel that there's not enough there to suggest that Carter and Orakpo's production is due to anyone except themselves.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

You are completely incorrect. The increased sack numbers for AC and at least half of those by Orakpo can be directly attributed to the presence of AH. We knew what we were getting with him, you get a difference-making 1-tech DT for about 67-70% of the defensive snaps each season. The FO felt he was worth it and I agree. If the salary cap goes away, he is nothing but a positive as long as he stays healthy (no seasone-ending injuries, but that could be said about any player). We just need to take into consideration that he won't be on the field 30% of the time and make sure we have a good DT rotation, which at this point I believe is the least of our worries.

The sack total is up and he may help out a little there. But is the defense any better? Are we better against the run? No. You can argue that we're worse. I'm sure the stat guys can compare this year to last years numbers.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

The sack total is up and he may help out a little there. But is the defense any better? Are we better against the run? No. You can argue that we're worse. I'm sure the stat guys can compare this year to last years numbers.

It's a lot of the same old story. The things that are generally in control of the front seven (pass rush, run defense), we're much improved at. The things that are generally in control of the back seven (pass defense) we're way worse at. Everyone still sucks at turnovers, and the last Redskin defender to score a touchdown was still Carlos Rogers against Jon Kitna. Overall, we're an 8-8 defense, again.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

It's a lot of the same old story. The things that are generally in control of the front seven (pass rush, run defense), we're much improved at. The things that are generally in control of the back seven (pass defense) we're way worse at. Everyone still sucks at turnovers, and the last Redskin defender to score a touchdown was still Carlos Rogers against Jon Kitna. Overall, we're an 8-8 defense, again.

I thought last year we had a playoff defense. A second tier defense which I would call above average. This year we do not have one yet we added AH and Orakpo.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Then why does our defense suck? If the pass rush is so damn good then why do we constantly give up long pass plays? Where was the pass rush last night? I don't give a damn about beating up Oakland or Tampa bay or STL. We need that pass rush to beat the NYG.

Look, I like our defense for the most part and they keep the score down most of the time. But has Haynesworth really made us a dominant defense? No. We're not better than last year and you could argue that we're worse. As I said I would've got Tank Johnson and maybe Chris Canty, add in Orakpo and called it a day.

Our pass d doesn't suck Landry and Rogers bite on too many double moves