Haynesworth Appreciation Thread

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

What I'm saying is he hasn't made the defense better. He's not dominating. He makes a nice play here and there but he not making a difference cause again he has no stamina. Reggie White made a difference and for the money he's making I want someone like Reggie White.

You are completely incorrect. The increased sack numbers for AC and at least half of those by Orakpo can be directly attributed to the presence of AH. We knew what we were getting with him, you get a difference-making 1-tech DT for about 67-70% of the defensive snaps each season. The FO felt he was worth it and I agree. If the salary cap goes away, he is nothing but a positive as long as he stays healthy (no seasone-ending injuries, but that could be said about any player). We just need to take into consideration that he won't be on the field 30% of the time and make sure we have a good DT rotation, which at this point I believe is the least of our worries.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

You are completely incorrect. The increased sack numbers for AC and at least half of those by Orakpo can be directly attributed to the presence of AH. We knew what we were getting with him, you get a difference-making 1-tech DT for about 67-70% of the defensive snaps each season. The FO felt he was worth it and I agree. If the salary cap goes away, he is nothing but a positive as long as he stays healthy (no seasone-ending injuries, but that could be said about any player). We just need to take into consideration that he won't be on the field 30% of the time and make sure we have a good DT rotation, which at this point I believe is the least of our worries.

I've only broken down about two halves since the bye week, so I'm hardly an expert on the last seven games, but my take is that Carter and Orakpo are doing what they are doing independant of what Haynesworth is providing. I don't really see Haynesworth collapsing the pocket to help them.

What I frequently do see is a guy who is playing his gap, and winning his one on ones very consistently. I'm just a bit surprised that so many teams are going 1 v 1 on Haynesworth, and I'm very surprised he hasn't had a bigger impact.

With that said, his effect on a game is clear every time he takes the field. Haynesworth goes 100% on nearly every play, and I just wish he could stay healthy. I just don't think his effect on a game is being reflected in Orakpo's or Carter's numbers.

As to his salary: it's almost unheard of to be able to add an impact player without giving up a draft pick. A lot of Haynesworth's salary is simply the difference between a free-market acquisition, and an extension given to a player who we traded a high draft pick to get. It was worth it, but the potential downside is staying with the player too long because you owe him money.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I've only broken down about two halves since the bye week, so I'm hardly an expert on the last seven games, but my take is that Carter and Orakpo are doing what they are doing independant of what Haynesworth is providing. I don't really see Haynesworth collapsing the pocket to help them.

What I frequently do see is a guy who is playing his gap, and winning his one on ones very consistently. I'm just a bit surprised that so many teams are going 1 v 1 on Haynesworth, and I'm very surprised he hasn't had a bigger impact.

With that said, his effect on a game is clear every time he takes the field. Haynesworth goes 100% on nearly every play, and I just wish he could stay healthy. I just don't think his effect on a game is being reflected in Orakpo's or Carter's numbers.

As to his salary: it's almost unheard of to be able to add an impact player without giving up a draft pick. A lot of Haynesworth's salary is simply the difference between a free-market acquisition, and an extension given to a player who we traded a high draft pick to get. It was worth it, but the potential downside is staying with the player too long because you owe him money.

I'm not sure man

I don't see Carter coming back this year and vanden bosch only having 3 sacks without AH being an influence on that.. tripp you have pretty numbers, but pretty numbers are often very analytical and don't have as much to do with the overall picture.. I get why some stats are come out with and how you follow the fballo's but there's a lot more to it

seeing the overall picture helps with that.. which I think that you do mostly well, but I think that maybe you put too much focus on these stats that matter to those that make them up, but won't be a part of major stats for awhile

honestly there's a gap to be bridged between them because they both matter, but they can be far extremes as well

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

I'm not sure man

I don't see Carter coming back this year and vanden bosch only having 3 sacks without AH being an influence on that.. tripp you have pretty numbers, but pretty numbers are often very analytical and don't have as much to do with the overall picture.. I get why some stats are come out with and how you follow the fballo's but there's a lot more to it

seeing the overall picture helps with that.. which I think that you do mostly well, but I think that maybe you put too much focus on these stats that matter to those that make them up, but won't be a part of major stats for awhile

honestly there's a gap to be bridged between them because they both matter, but they can be far extremes as well

The above post had not one thing to do with stats. I can pull out all sorts of fancy metrics that pinpoint exactly where our defense ranks and what our pass rush ranks and such, but there's nothing that would justify the above.

Like you said, I think the Titans are missing him, but he had 8 sacks last year with them. I think our scheme is primarily responsible for the downturn in production. And I think he's been great here, particularly in short yardage situations. I think there's a whole number of stats that would show his impact for our team. But ultimately, I feel that there's not enough there to suggest that Carter and Orakpo's production is due to anyone except themselves.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

The above post had not one thing to do with stats. I can pull out all sorts of fancy metrics that pinpoint exactly where our defense ranks and what our pass rush ranks and such, but there's nothing that would justify the above.

Like you said, I think the Titans are missing him, but he had 8 sacks last year with them. I think our scheme is primarily responsible for the downturn in production. And I think he's been great here, particularly in short yardage situations. I think there's a whole number of stats that would show his impact for our team. But ultimately, I feel that there's not enough there to suggest that Carter and Orakpo's production is due to anyone except themselves.

I guess that if you look at it in the sense of them both seeing mostly single teams with maybe a RB at best helping, yes they've done that, so you could attribute it to what they've been able to do. I also think that there's a reason that they're seeing single teams and that's where Haynesworth comes in.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

I guess that if you look at it in the sense of them both seeing mostly single teams with maybe a RB at best helping, yes they've done that, so you could attribute it to what they've been able to do. I also think that there's a reason that they're seeing single teams and that's where Haynesworth comes in.

Haynesworth is also seeing a lot of single teams though, at least for a defensive tackle. I'm not saying he doesn't get doubled a lot, I'm saying that defensive tackles get doubled a lot because they line up close to the QB, and have to be stopped. Haynesworth doesn't seem to draw more double teams than Griffin. He's just better than Griff at beating the 1 on 1s when he gets them. As you would expect.

I'll say this: when the guy lines up at DE, he draws two blockers much more often than the normal DE. And when he doesn't, that's when he does most of his damage. He can beat most OTs in the league, which is a rare ability for a DT and it's why he's getting paid so much.

But when he's playing DE, it means that either Orakpo or Carter are not. It's a fun wrinkle with a toy like Haynesworth, but ultimately, it's one of the reasons I believe that Carter and Orakpo have a bigger effect on each other than Haynesworth does on either. We try to isolate Albert.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Haynesworth is also seeing a lot of single teams though, at least for a defensive tackle. I'm not saying he doesn't get doubled a lot, I'm saying that defensive tackles get doubled a lot because they line up close to the QB, and have to be stopped. Haynesworth doesn't seem to draw more double teams than Griffin. He's just better than Griff at beating the 1 on 1s when he gets them. As you would expect.

I'll say this: when the guy lines up at DE, he draws two blockers much more often than the normal DE. And when he doesn't, that's when he does most of his damage. He can beat most OTs in the league, which is a rare ability for a DT and it's why he's getting paid so much.

But when he's playing DE, it means that either Orakpo or Carter are not. It's a fun wrinkle with a toy like Haynesworth, but ultimately, it's one of the reasons I believe that Carter and Orakpo have a bigger effect on each other than Haynesworth does on either. We try to isolate Albert.

Ahh, I can definitely see where you're coming from, you've obviously broken it down more than I have.

[skins89moss]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

The above post had not one thing to do with stats. I can pull out all sorts of fancy metrics that pinpoint exactly where our defense ranks and what our pass rush ranks and such, but there's nothing that would justify the above.

Like you said, I think the Titans are missing him, but he had 8 sacks last year with them. I think our scheme is primarily responsible for the downturn in production. And I think he's been great here, particularly in short yardage situations. I think there's a whole number of stats that would show his impact for our team. But ultimately, I feel that there's not enough there to suggest that Carter and Orakpo's production is due to anyone except themselves.

Well A/H said Blache is not letting him play like he did with the Titans. He wants to be turned lose.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

You are completely incorrect. The increased sack numbers for AC and at least half of those by Orakpo can be directly attributed to the presence of AH. We knew what we were getting with him, you get a difference-making 1-tech DT for about 67-70% of the defensive snaps each season. The FO felt he was worth it and I agree. If the salary cap goes away, he is nothing but a positive as long as he stays healthy (no seasone-ending injuries, but that could be said about any player). We just need to take into consideration that he won't be on the field 30% of the time and make sure we have a good DT rotation, which at this point I believe is the least of our worries.

The sack total is up and he may help out a little there. But is the defense any better? Are we better against the run? No. You can argue that we're worse. I'm sure the stat guys can compare this year to last years numbers.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

The sack total is up and he may help out a little there. But is the defense any better? Are we better against the run? No. You can argue that we're worse. I'm sure the stat guys can compare this year to last years numbers.

It's a lot of the same old story. The things that are generally in control of the front seven (pass rush, run defense), we're much improved at. The things that are generally in control of the back seven (pass defense) we're way worse at. Everyone still sucks at turnovers, and the last Redskin defender to score a touchdown was still Carlos Rogers against Jon Kitna. Overall, we're an 8-8 defense, again.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

It's a lot of the same old story. The things that are generally in control of the front seven (pass rush, run defense), we're much improved at. The things that are generally in control of the back seven (pass defense) we're way worse at. Everyone still sucks at turnovers, and the last Redskin defender to score a touchdown was still Carlos Rogers against Jon Kitna. Overall, we're an 8-8 defense, again.

I thought last year we had a playoff defense. A second tier defense which I would call above average. This year we do not have one yet we added AH and Orakpo.

[mlmdub130]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

[/B]

I thought last year we had a playoff defense. A second tier defense which I would call above average. This year we do not have one yet we added AH and Orakpo.

thats on blache he is mis-using both of them!!!!

[wolfeskins]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

[/b]

I thought last year we had a playoff defense. A second tier defense which I would call above average. This year we do not have one yet we added AH and Orakpo.

so who are you blaming for that? are you saying orakpo and haynesworth have made our defense worse?

[saden1]

Originally Posted by wolfeskins

so who are you blaming for that? are you saying orakpo and haynesworth have made our defense worse?

No, just Mr. Haynesworth. Incidentally, a tool is not as good as its user.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by wolfeskins

so who are you blaming for that? are you saying orakpo and haynesworth have made our defense worse?

I think it's a chemistry thing. We've got good players, talented players but for what ever reason they're not playing well together. Maybe it's Blache, maybe not. Maybe the new DC will let AH do this thing. We'll see.