Report: Shanahan to DC done deal

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

So that doesn't seem fair then does it. Like you said it's in place for the no-names (guys like Jerry Gray), not the successful ones. So it's just kind of interesting I guess that such a fuss is being made about Gray interviewing with Shanahan the odds on favorite to get the job anyway. But if we were talking about Dungy then we wouldn't care if Gray was a token interview or if Snyder was making a mockery of the rule?

Pretty much. The rule will be made a mockery of, unfortunately, because you have such a small pool of good coaching candidates to begin with. Whittle that same pool down to an even smaller pool of maybe qualified black coaches, and you open it up to criticism.

Truth is the Rooney Rule is created for that one guy who turns out to be Joe Gibbs before he becomes Joe Gibbs. The downside is there aren't that many Joe Gibbs out there, so you have to sift through all the Jerry Grays of the NFL to satisfy some bullshit token rule.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Pretty much. The rule will be made a mockery of, unfortunately, because you have such a small pool of good coaching candidates to begin with. Whittle that same pool down to an even smaller pool of maybe qualified black coaches, and you open it up to criticism.

Truth is the Rooney Rule is created for that one guy who turns out to be Joe Gibbs before he becomes Joe Gibbs. The downside is there aren't that many Joe Gibbs out there, so you have to sift through all the Jerry Grays of the NFL to satisfy some bullshit token rule.

If it was such a 'bullshit token rule' (which I find highly offensive BTW) then I'm sure the Steelers appreciate that 'bullshit token rule' because otherwise they wouldn't have interviewed Mike Tomlin. The Bears may not have interviewed Lovie Smith. Leslie Frazier may not be a hot candidate for jobs this year.

For those that think it's a 'bullshit token rule' tell that to Sherm Lewis, Marvin Lewis, Tony Dungy and plenty of the other coaches who weren't given a sniff for an interview for YEARS because the good old boy network was busy recycling the same names and faces over and over again.

It's really easy to sit on the perch of power and mock the lack of opportunity and delude yourself into believing a level playing field existed before the Rooney rule.

[mlmdub130]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

If it was such a 'bullshit token rule' (which I find highly offensive BTW) then I'm sure the Steelers appreciate that 'bullshit token rule' because otherwise they wouldn't have interviewed Mike Tomlin. The Bears may not have interviewed Lovie Smith. Leslie Frazier may not be a hot candidate for jobs this year.

For those that think it's a 'bullshit token rule' tell that to Sherm Lewis, Marvin Lewis, Tony Dungy and plenty of the other coaches who weren't given a sniff for an interview for YEARS because the good old boy network was busy recycling the same names and faces over and over again.

It's really easy to sit on the perch of power and mock the lack of opportunity and delude yourself into believing a level playing field existed before the Rooney rule.

might have actually been better of had they not interviewed him

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by mlmdub130

might have actually been better of had they not interviewed him

They went to the Super Bowl 3 years ago with Rex Freaking Grossman. I'd strongly beg to differ.

[mlmdub130]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

They went to the Super Bowl 3 years ago with Rex Freaking Grossman. I'd strongly beg to differ.

he won when he first got there, the past three years one winning season of 9-7, i'm just saying he is no mike tomlin and i was joking when i made the initial comment, since they are now talking about getting rid of him

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

If it was such a 'bullshit token rule' (which I find highly offensive BTW) then I'm sure the Steelers appreciate that 'bullshit token rule' because otherwise they wouldn't have interviewed Mike Tomlin. The Bears may not have interviewed Lovie Smith. Leslie Frazier may not be a hot candidate for jobs this year.

For those that think it's a 'bullshit token rule' tell that to Sherm Lewis, Marvin Lewis, Tony Dungy and plenty of the other coaches who weren't given a sniff for an interview for YEARS because the good old boy network was busy recycling the same names and faces over and over again.

It's really easy to sit on the perch of power and mock the lack of opportunity and delude yourself into believing a level playing field existed before the Rooney rule.

I went a little too far with the word bullshit. My apologies. But it is bullshit that the Redskins had already determined that Shanny would be the coach no matter what and in order to satisfy a rule to interview a black candidate, Jerry Gray was interviewed. In my estimation that is bullshit. Either keep the leaks under wraps or wait until the end of the season to handle your business. So while you take offense to the my characterization of the rule, I take offense to the process and how a black coach was interviewed knowing full well he wasn't being considered for the damn job in the first place.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

If it was such a 'bullshit token rule' (which I find highly offensive BTW) then I'm sure the Steelers appreciate that 'bullshit token rule' because otherwise they wouldn't have interviewed Mike Tomlin. The Bears may not have interviewed Lovie Smith. Leslie Frazier may not be a hot candidate for jobs this year.

For those that think it's a 'bullshit token rule' tell that to Sherm Lewis, Marvin Lewis, Tony Dungy and plenty of the other coaches who weren't given a sniff for an interview for YEARS because the good old boy network was busy recycling the same names and faces over and over again.

It's really easy to sit on the perch of power and mock the lack of opportunity and delude yourself into believing a level playing field existed before the Rooney rule.

Why do you seem to take everthing someone says about the BS rule as a negative comment toward african americans? As if we don't want blacks to get a chance. My comment about it being a BS rule is cause if an owner wants to interview the african american water boy for a HCing position then he can and has fulfilled the Rooney Rule. In other words it's not fair to qualified black candidates to which I call it a BS rule.

Some of the people on here feel Gray was qualified. He got interviewed. Be satisfied. I don't know if he is or not... I would have prefered some one else get interviewed. Who? I don't kinow but maybe a black OC. Our problems are not defense right now. I just hope Gray got a fair shake. I hope the team told Zorn and he gave Gray his blessing otherwise Gray would feel like he's undermining his HC and in essence not have interviewed seriously for the job.

This is why I feel it's a BS rule. Not cause I don't think there should be black HC's or black coach's interviewed for those positions.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Why do you seem to take everthing someone says about the BS rule as a negative comment toward african americans? As if we don't want blacks to get a chance. My comment about it being a BS rule is cause if an owner wants to interview the african american water boy for a HCing position then he can and has fulfilled the Rooney Rule. In other words it's not fair to qualified black candidates to which I call it a BS rule.

Some of the people on here feel Gray was qualified. He got interviewed. Be satisfied. I don't know if he is or not... I would have prefered some one else get interviewed. Who? I don't kinow but maybe a black OC. Our problems are not defense right now. I just hope Gray got a fair shake. I hope the team told Zorn and he gave Gray his blessing otherwise Gray would feel like he's undermining his HC and in essence not have interviewed seriously for the job.

This is why I feel it's a BS rule. Not cause I don't think there should be black HC's or black coach's interviewed for those positions.

nice post.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Why do you seem to take everthing someone says about the BS rule as a negative comment toward african americans? As if we don't want blacks to get a chance. My comment about it being a BS rule is cause if an owner wants to interview the african american water boy for a HCing position then he can and has fulfilled the Rooney Rule. In other words it's not fair to qualified black candidates to which I call it a BS rule.

Some of the people on here feel Gray was qualified. He got interviewed. Be satisfied. I don't know if he is or not... I would have prefered some one else get interviewed. Who? I don't kinow but maybe a black OC. Our problems are not defense right now. I just hope Gray got a fair shake. I hope the team told Zorn and he gave Gray his blessing otherwise Gray would feel like he's undermining his HC and in essence not have interviewed seriously for the job.

This is why I feel it's a BS rule. Not cause I don't think there should be black HC's or black coach's interviewed for those positions.

I don't take that position (which he clarified) as a negative towards African Americans, I take offense to that attitude of 'tokenism' being the reason the rule is in place. The rule is intended to increase exposure to other candidates that owners may not have considered otherwise. I am sure Norm Chow and Ron Rivera wish the Rooney Rule was in place 10-12 years ago when they were coming up in the coaching ranks and neither of them is African American.

The Rooney Rule says nothing about HIRING (which is where the claim of 'tokenism' would be applicable) but simply interviewing. If there were 8 openings this offseason and 8 different minority candidates were interviewed and 8 white guys were hired, there would be no complaints from the Fritz Pollard Alliance because the Rooney Rule would have been followed and all teams would be in compliance with it.

The best application of the rule is in our case. We know that Shanny is going to be the coach, but we interviewed Jerry Gray. Now let's say the Texans make the decision to fire Kubiak. Snyder may call Bob McNair and say, 'hey we interviewed Jerry Gray for our HC position. He's got some great ideas on the 3-4 defense like you guys run, came in with a dynamite plan and presentation and I know you are looking for a defensive minded coach. He wasn't a fit for us because we wanted an offensive guy but maybe you should give him a call.' That is how the Rooney Rule is supposed to work, it has nothing to do with tokenism, hiring percentages or quotas.

My issues have nothing to do with skin color, only speaking half cocked on things without knowing the facts.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I don't take that position (which he clarified) as a negative towards African Americans, I take offense to that attitude of 'tokenism' being the reason the rule is in place. The rule is intended to increase exposure to other candidates that owners may not have considered otherwise. I am sure Norm Chow and Ron Rivera wish the Rooney Rule was in place 10-12 years ago when they were coming up in the coaching ranks and neither of them is African American.

The Rooney Rule says nothing about HIRING (which is where the claim of 'tokenism' would be applicable) but simply interviewing. If there were 8 openings this offseason and 8 different minority candidates were interviewed and 8 white guys were hired, there would be no complaints from the Fritz Pollard Alliance because the Rooney Rule would have been followed and all teams would be in compliance with it.

The best application of the rule is in our case. We know that Shanny is going to be the coach, but we interviewed Jerry Gray. Now let's say the Texans make the decision to fire Kubiak. Snyder may call Bob McNair and say, 'hey we interviewed Jerry Gray for our HC position. He's got some great ideas on the 3-4 defense like you guys run, came in with a dynamite plan and presentation and I know you are looking for a defensive minded coach. He wasn't a fit for us because we wanted an offensive guy but maybe you should give him a call.' That is how the Rooney Rule is supposed to work, it has nothing to do with tokenism, hiring percentages or quotas.

My issues have nothing to do with skin color, only speaking half cocked on things without knowing the facts.

But Pain you say your issues have nothing to do with skin color, but at the end of the day, my friend, the Rooney Rule is all about skin color. That reality can't be escaped and can't be separate from this argument. And on the contrary, if someone had a hang-up with Rivera or Chow ten years ago because of skin color or ethnicity, it wouldn't amount to a hill of beans in the eyes of the interviewer if Rivera or Chow interviewed for that same job today.

I like and agree how you feel that the Rooney Rule is intended to increase exposure to candidates who wouldn't be otherwise considered for promotion. But getting hired is the prize, not simply getting interviewed. Your point is well taken though.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

But Pain you say your issues have nothing to do with skin color, but at the end of the day, my friend, the Rooney Rule is all about skin color. That reality can't be escaped and can't be separate from this argument. And on the contrary, if someone had a hang-up with Rivera or Chow ten years ago because of skin color or ethnicity, it wouldn't amount to a hill of beans in the eyes of the interviewer if Rivera or Chow interviewed for that same job today.

I like and agree how you feel that the Rooney Rule is intended to increase exposure to candidates who wouldn't be otherwise be considered for promotion. But getting hired is the prize, not simply getting interviewed. Your point is well taken though.

Maybe I should have clarified. I should have said my issues never have anything to do with 'African American'.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I don't take that position (which he clarified) as a negative towards African Americans, I take offense to that attitude of 'tokenism' being the reason the rule is in place. The rule is intended to increase exposure to other candidates that owners may not have considered otherwise. I am sure Norm Chow and Ron Rivera wish the Rooney Rule was in place 10-12 years ago when they were coming up in the coaching ranks and neither of them is African American.

The Rooney Rule says nothing about HIRING (which is where the claim of 'tokenism' would be applicable) but simply interviewing. If there were 8 openings this offseason and 8 different minority candidates were interviewed and 8 white guys were hired, there would be no complaints from the Fritz Pollard Alliance because the Rooney Rule would have been followed and all teams would be in compliance with it.

The best application of the rule is in our case. We know that Shanny is going to be the coach, but we interviewed Jerry Gray. Now let's say the Texans make the decision to fire Kubiak. Snyder may call Bob McNair and say, 'hey we interviewed Jerry Gray for our HC position. He's got some great ideas on the 3-4 defense like you guys run, came in with a dynamite plan and presentation and I know you are looking for a defensive minded coach. He wasn't a fit for us because we wanted an offensive guy but maybe you should give him a call.' That is how the Rooney Rule is supposed to work, it has nothing to do with tokenism, hiring percentages or quotas.

My issues have nothing to do with skin color, only speaking half cocked on things without knowing the facts.

I agree black candidates need exposure and thats what the Rooney Rule was meant for but my issues are about interviewing black coach's who don't have a chance in hell of getting the job but are interviewed simply to fulfill the rule vs. interviewing actual qualified black coach's. Yes Gray is qualified I guess. I don't know. I would like to think DS, maybe G.Williams, or someone associated with the team would make that call or when another team contacts the Skins someone would suggest Gray. I would like to think that's how most of the great black HC's got their start. I'd like to see more teams coaching up or giving black coach's better chances at OC so they in the long run get better chances of getting HCing jobs.

Just like when you apply for a job you don't apply for one job and hope you get it. You apply for many jobs in hopes you get one of them. Your chances are better. No different then teams hiring more black position coach's which brings about more candidates for HCing jobs vs. one or two candidates.

The sad thing is I think we all are thinking along the same lines but for whatever reason it seemed like you got offended with all of us for saying its a BS rule. As if we are racist and don't think blacks should be given a chance. When in reality we are saying teams are not even interviewing qualified candidates in some instances just to satisfy the Rooney Rule leaving actual qualified candidates out. Gray may be qualified but how can you say he was given a fair shake when he's still working under someone who's in a position he interviewing for?

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

I agree black candidates need exposure and thats what the Rooney Rule was meant for but my issues are about interviewing black coach's who don't have a chance in hell of getting the job but are interviewed simply to fulfill the rule vs. interviewing actual qualified black coach's. Yes Gray is qualified I guess. I don't know. I would like to think DS, maybe G.Williams, or someone associated with the team would make that call or when another team contacts the Skins someone would suggest Gray. I would like to think that's how most of the great black HC's got their start. I'd like to see more teams coaching up or giving black coach's better chances at OC so they in the long run get better chances of getting HCing jobs.

Just like when you apply for a job you don't apply for one job and hope you get it. You apply for many jobs in hopes you get one of them. Your chances are better. No different then teams hiring more black position coach's which brings about more candidates for HCing jobs vs. one or two candidates.

The sad thing is I think we all are thinking along the same lines but for whatever reason it seemed like you got offended with all of us for saying its a BS rule. As if we are racist and don't think blacks should be given a chance. When in reality we are saying teams are not even interviewing qualified candidates in some instances just to satisfy the Rooney Rule leaving actual qualified candidates out. Gray may be qualified but how can you say he was given a fair shake when he's still working under someone who's in a position he interviewing for?

2 points to what was bolded. I agree it was a bit of a 'sham' interview, as some Rooney interview are. Where the value is in a scenario like that is the ability to give a recommendation to another owner based on an interview you may not have otherwise done.

If I was authoring the rule I would have put in the language that you cannot interview someone who is working for or has worked for you in the past 3 years to satisfy the rule. You would have to interview someone unique to your organization in order to be in compliance.

What I find/found offensive is the notion that the rule is in place to fulfill quotas and tokens. Not only is it inaccurate, it's offensive because of the implication that those coaches would only be hired to satisfy a 'BS rule'.