Shanahan presser thread

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Pete Prisco slams Shanahan as a personnel guy:

The food is rotten - CBSSports.com

its no secret that both shanahan and allen suck as personnel guys. thats the one crucial piece of the puzzle that is still missing. Hopefully, that piece will be found well in advance of the draft and free agency.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

its no secret that both shanahan and allen suck as personnel guys. thats the one crucial piece of the puzzle that is still missing. Hopefully, that piece will be found well in advance of the draft and free agency.

People in general seem to think nothing ever changes?
People learn from their mistakes? Unless your a Cowboy......
I know that I am....compelled to do something different the second time around if it did not work to my satisfaction the first time. I add safeguards, use additional expertise, consult, etc. Is it not a reasonable assumption that our current FO and coaching staff will do the same?

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Hog1

People in general seem to think nothing ever changes?
People learn from their mistakes? Unless your a Cowboy......
I know that I am....compelled to do something different the second time around if it did not work to my satisfaction the first time. I add safeguards, use additional expertise, consult, etc. Is it not a reasonable assumption that our current FO and coaching staff will do the same?

you change and learn from your mistakes, but if you are inherently bad at something, you're not going to get much better at it. as has been stated a number of times, one of the main reasons shanahan failed when wearing the GM hat in denver is because coaching took up so much of his time, he didn't have enough left to do the proper due dilligence to ensure he made good personnel decisions. Shanahan won't have any more time here, so it would be completely foolish to think he would do any better than he did in Denver in making good personnel decisions. There is only so much time in the day. With Bruce Allen, its simply not one of his strengths. Its more reasonable to think he can simply improve. However, you have to remember that both of these guys were fired within the past year because they "sucked" at being GMs. its unreasonable to expect them to be much better than they were in such a short period of time. A third "piece to the puzzle" needs to be added.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

you change and learn from your mistakes, but if you are inherently bad at something, you're not going to get much better at it. as has been stated a number of times, one of the main reasons shanahan failed when wearing the GM hat in denver is because coaching took up so much of his time, he didn't have enough left to do the proper due dilligence to ensure he made good personnel decisions. Shanahan won't have any more time here, so it would be completely foolish to think he would do any better than he did in Denver in making good personnel decisions. There is only so much time in the day. With Bruce Allen, its simply not one of his strengths. Its more reasonable to think he can simply improve. However, you have to remember that both of these guys were fired within the past year because they "sucked" at being GMs. its unreasonable to expect them to be much better than they were in such a short period of time. A third "piece to the puzzle" needs to be added.

The core of your remarks are subjective, speculative and a matter of assumption on your part. As you point out ina later post we only have so much time for "cutting and pasting"?
I'll leave it at this. One of us has to be wrong...I hope it's you!
HTTR

[SmootSmack]

They don't suck. They're not the best and they have made some poor decisions but they don't suck

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

They don't suck. They're not the best and they have made some poor decisions but they don't suck

depends on your definition of suck. they've both made more poor decisons than good ones, especially allen. Shanahan is pretty good in drafting/signing good offensive players though. however, in the press conference, shanahan said he "never" excercised his "final say" authority in Denver, so perhaps it was just denvers scouting and player development departments that sucked.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

depends on your definition of suck. they've both made more poor decisons than good ones, especially allen. Shanahan is pretty good in drafting/signing good offensive players though. however, in the press conference, shanahan said he "never" excercised his "final say" authority in Denver, so perhaps it was just denvers scouting and player development departments that sucked.

Details please? It's easy to make this claim but give some data to back it up..

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Details please? It's easy to make this claim but give some data to back it up..

haven't we already discussed shanahan and gruden's draft records? This is nothing new.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

haven't we already discussed shanahan and gruden's draft records? This is nothing new.

To make a claim of 'more bad picks than good' is pretty damning, isn't it? Granted neither of them stocked rosters 2 deep with Pro bowlers but neither were Matt Millen either.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

To make a claim of 'more bad picks than good' is pretty damning, isn't it? Granted neither of them stocked rosters 2 deep with Pro bowlers but neither were Matt Millen either.

Or worse

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

To make a claim of 'more bad picks than good' is pretty damning, isn't it? Granted neither of them stocked rosters 2 deep with Pro bowlers but neither were Matt Millen either.

Decide for yourself:

Bruce Allen's Draft Record: 2005-2008

2005 - Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Rd Sel # Player Position School

1 5 Cadillac Williams RB Auburn
2 36 Barrett Ruud LB Nebraska
3 71 Alex Smith TE Stanford
3 91 Chris Colmer T North Carolina State
4 107 Dan Buenning G Wisconsin
5 141 Donte Nicholson DB Oklahoma
5 155 Larry Brackins -- Pearl River CC MS
6 178 Anthony Bryant DT Alabama
7 221 Rick Razzano RB Mississippi
7 225 Paris Warren WR Utah
7 231 Hamza Abdullah DB Washington State
7 253 J.R. Russell WR Louisville


2006 - Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Rd Sel # Player Position School

1 23 Davin Joseph G Oklahoma
2 59 Jeremy Trueblood T Boston College
3 90 Maurice Stovall WR Notre Dame
4 122 Alan Zemaitis CB Penn State
5 156 Julian Jenkins DE Stanford
6 194 Bruce Gradkowski QB Toledo
6 202 T.J. Williams TE North Carolina State
7 235 Justin Phinisee CB Oregon
7 241 Charles Bennett DE Clemson
7 244 Tim Massaquoi TE Michigan


2007 - Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Rd Sel # Player Position School

1 4 Gaines Adams DE Clemson
2 35 Arron Sears G Tennessee
2 64 Sabby Piscitelli SAF Oregon State
3 68 Quincy Black LB New Mexico
4 106 Tanard Jackson FS Syracuse
5 141 Greg Peterson DT North Carolina Central
6 182 Adam Hayward LB Portland State
7 214 Chris Denman T Fresno State
7 245 Marcus Hamilton CB Virginia
7 246 Kenneth Darby RB Alabama


2008 - Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 20 Aqib Talib CB Kansas
2 58 Dexter Jackson WR Appalachian State
3 83 Jeremy Zuttah G Rutgers
4 115 Dre Moore DT Maryland
5 160 Josh Johnson QB San Diego
6 175 Geno Hayes OLB Florida State
7 238 Cory Boyd RB South Carolina


Mike Shanahan's Draft Record (We'll use the same time period)

2005 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School

2 56 Darrent Williams CB Oklahoma State
3 76 Karl Paymah DB Washington State
3 97 Domonique Foxworth CB Maryland
3 101 Maurice Clarett -- Ohio State
6 200 Chris Myers G Miami (Fla.)
7 239 Paul Ernster K Northern Arizona


2006 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 11 Jay Cutler QB Vanderbilt
2 61 Tony Scheffler TE Western Michigan
4 119 Brandon Marshall WR Central Florida
4 126 Elvis Dumervil DE Louisville
4 130 Domenik Hixon WR Akron
5 161 Chris Kuper G North Dakota
6 198 Greg Eslinger C Minnesota


2007 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 17 Jarvis Moss DE Florida
2 56 Tim Crowder DE Texas
3 70 Ryan Harris OT Notre Dame
4 121 Marcus Thomas DT Florida


2008 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 12 Ryan Clady T Boise State
2 42 Eddie Royal WR Virginia Tech
4 108 Kory Lichtensteiger C Bowling Green State
4 119 Jack Williams CB Kent State
5 139 Ryan Torain RB Arizona State
5 148 Carlton Powell DT Virginia Tech
6 183 Spencer Larsen FB Arizona
7 220 Josh Barrett DB Arizona State
7 227 Peyton Hillis RB Arkansas

[rbanerjee23]

I agree that Shanahan has hit and miss a lot with draft picks and his defenses on the whole tend towards mediocrity...but we have a solid defensive core with tons of talent on the line and Shanahan has a weird knack for having good to great running backs regardless of who is back there (Droughns, Bell etc.)

If he gets better at his weaknesses and maintains his strengths then we will have a heck of a team

[SmootSmack]

Are we talking only draft? So guys like Donald Penn and Antonio Bryant don't count?

[BigHairedAristocrat]

I only have so much time for cutting and pasting and I dont know where to find a list of free agent acquisitions. Additionally, since most feel the best teams build through the draft, its probably more pertinent, although it certainly doesn't give a complete picture.

If I have time tomorrow, i'll go through this list and post my opinions on a player-by-player basis. My initial impression (on the good side) is that both Shanahan and Allen select multiple linemen in most drafts. Far too many of the 1st and 2nd round picks have not developed into solid starters, and there are more "busts" than we've had ourselves here.... although I guess it depends on your definition of the term.

[CrustyRedskin]

The draft is such a crap shoot. You never know what your getting. This thread is gatting out of hand.