The Tempered Expectations Thread

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Ugh we get it dude, you hate everything the team does right now and we're doomed. Personally I don't see where we're continuing with the same old in any regard. Vinny is gone, new GM, new coach with a proven track record, Snyder out of the way, etc. It just seems that you are intent on spinning everything to the negative, there's really no use in trying to convince you otherwise.

Mike Shanahan - "proven track record"??? What do you mean by that? He won ONE playoff win in the last ten years. If you want to go back 11-15 years, then yeah, he had alot of success. But so did Gibbs 1.0. Instead of thinking Shanahan can replicate what he did 11-15 years ago, aren't you the slightest bit concerned about why he couldnt come close to that level of success in the past ten years?

What on earth makes you think we're getting Shanahan of 11-15 years ago, and not Shanahan of 10 years ago to the present? When shanahan has a history of selecting poor defensive coordinators and he's hired yet another one, what makes you expect a different result?

you keep criticising me for being negative. I'm a redskins fan but I don't wear burgundy and gold colored glasses. I don't put blind faith in every move the redskins make and think it will succeed because i'm a fan. Its a shame that the skins have been bad for so long that people's standards have dropped so low.

I don't automatically hate everything the team does. If we had, for example, hired Eric DeCosta as GM and he had interviewed 4-5 candidates and ultimately hired Bill Cowher as head coach, who then hired Charlie Weiss as OC and Romeo Crennel as DC, i wou'dnt be hating a thing. I don't know how all of those people would have worked togehter, but they each have had proven track records of success in their respective areas of expertise.

The men we've selected to fill those roles with this team haven't anywhere near that same level of success. I'm skeptical - not because I want to be - but because I'm not all that impressed with the resume's of a single one of the hires we've made. We've basically taken a bunch of people who have been poor to above average in their respective areas of expertise over the last decade and we're expecting these guys to somehow all "get it right" and take us to the promised land. But why? What evidence do we have to merit such faith?

you say you can't change my mind - well you know what? you CAN change my mind. I just need EVIDENCE. What EVIDENCE do you have that:

1) Bruce Allen and Mike Shanahan will do better at drafting players than they did in Tampa Bay and Denver.

2) Jim Haslett will be a better defensive coordinator than he has been in the past.

Give me any argument that contains evidence and not "we just have to wait and see" and i'll be THRILLED beyond belief.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Mike Shanahan - "proven track record"??? What do you mean by that? He won ONE playoff win in the last ten years. If you want to go back 11-15 years, then yeah, he had alot of success. But so did Gibbs 1.0. Instead of thinking Shanahan can replicate what he did 11-15 years ago, aren't you the slightest bit concerned about why he couldnt come close to that level of success in the past ten years?

What on earth makes you think we're getting Shanahan of 11-15 years ago, and not Shanahan of 10 years ago to the present? When shanahan has a history of selecting poor defensive coordinators and he's hired yet another one, what makes you expect a different result?

you keep criticising me for being negative. I'm a redskins fan but I don't wear burgundy and gold colored glasses. I don't put blind faith in every move the redskins make and think it will succeed because i'm a fan. Its a shame that the skins have been bad for so long that people's standards have dropped so low.

I don't automatically hate everything the team does. If we had, for example, hired Eric DeCosta as GM and he had interviewed 4-5 candidates and ultimately hired Bill Cowher as head coach, who then hired Charlie Weiss as OC and Romeo Crennel as DC, i wou'dnt be hating a thing. I don't know how all of those people would have worked togehter, but they each have had proven track records of success in their respective areas of expertise.

The men we've selected to fill those roles with this team haven't anywhere near that same level of success. I'm skeptical - not because I want to be - but because I'm not all that impressed with the resume's of a single one of the hires we've made. We've basically taken a bunch of people who have been poor to above average in their respective areas of expertise over the last decade and we're expecting these guys to somehow all "get it right" and take us to the promised land. But why? What evidence do we have to merit such faith?

you say you can't change my mind - well you know what? you CAN change my mind. I just need EVIDENCE. What EVIDENCE do you have that:

1) Bruce Allen and Mike Shanahan will do better at drafting players than they did in Tampa Bay and Denver.

2) Jim Haslett will be a better defensive coordinator than he has been in the past.

Give me any argument that contains evidence and not "we just have to wait and see" and i'll be THRILLED beyond belief.

Proven track record as in look at Shanahan's career accomplishments. I think that speaks for itself.

It's not about blind faith man, it's about letting things play out and giving this new regime a chance before you write off everything.

Right now nobody knows for sure how this is all going to work. I can't tell you it's going to work, just like you can't tell me it's not going to work. Everyone can spin all the stats and numbers all they want to fit their views, truth is we have to see how things play out on the field.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Proven track record as in look at Shanahan's career accomplishments. I think that speaks for itself.

It's not about blind faith man, it's about letting things play out and giving this new regime a chance before you write off everything.

Right now nobody knows for sure how this is all going to work. I can't tell you it's going to work, just like you can't tell me it's not going to work. Everyone can spin all the stats and numbers all they want to fit their views, truth is we have to see how things play out on the field.

don't you think every single time there's any change in the coaching staff of a team in the off-season, everyone always gets excited and says, "let things play-off before you write off everything?" Smart offseason moves translate to inseason success. Firing Vinny was a good first move. We had a clean slate and, instead of making a bunch of great moves, have made a bunch of mediocre ones. therefore, i'm expecting mediocre results. I'm expecting our offense to improve dramatically over the next 3 years and our defense to regress with each consecutive year. over the next 5 years, we won't win more than 10 regular season games, we wont win more than 1 playoff game, but we won't be 4-12 again either. i'm not being pessemtistic, i'm being realistic. i'm basing my expectations on the mediocre track records of everyone confirmed to be part of our new front office and coaching staff.

Like you said, none of us knows anything for a certainty, but the "recipe for success" is simply not here. The team has raised my expectations by firing Vinny and Zorn, but he's disappointed me with everything since. Sorry, but I stopped drinking the Koolaid the moment Allen was hired as a precursor to Shanahan. Right now the only thing that would raise my expectations is if a proven personnel guy is hired to make those decisions. Shanahan and Allen both need help in that department if they want to succeed.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

don't you think every single time there's any change in the coaching staff of a team in the off-season, everyone always gets excited and says, "let things play-off before you write off everything?" Smart offseason moves translate to inseason success. Firing Vinny was a good first move. We had a clean slate and, instead of making a bunch of great moves, have made a bunch of mediocre ones. therefore, i'm expecting mediocre results. I'm expecting our offense to improve dramatically over the next 3 years and our defense to regress with each consecutive year. over the next 5 years, we won't win more than 10 regular season games, we wont win more than 1 playoff game, but we won't be 4-12 again either. i'm not being pessemtistic, i'm being realistic. i'm basing my expectations on the mediocre track records of everyone confirmed to be part of our new front office and coaching staff.

Like you said, none of us knows anything for a certainty, but the "recipe for success" is simply not here. The team has raised my expectations by firing Vinny and Zorn, but he's disappointed me with everything since. Sorry, but I stopped drinking the Koolaid the moment Allen was hired as a precursor to Shanahan. Right now the only thing that would raise my expectations is if a proven personnel guy is hired to make those decisions. Shanahan and Allen both need help in that department if they want to succeed.

You're certainly entitled to your opinions, it's just funny how you speak in such certainties and absolutes and seem to already have your mind made up.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

You're certainly entitled to your opinions, it's just funny how you speak in such certainties and absolutes and seem to already have your mind made up.

When Zorn and Cerrato were fired, I had high hopes. We had a blank slate. so far, most of my fears have been confirmed. i've seen enough already to make my mind up. i've formed an opinion, and its not changing until i see any evidence that it should.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

When Zorn and Cerrato were fired, I had high hopes. We had a blank slate. so far, most of my fears have been confirmed. i've seen enough already to make my mind up. i've formed an opinion, and its not changing until i see any evidence that it should.

Wish I could be so sure in January before we've made any personnel moves and haven't stepped on a practice field yet.