Kurt Warner announces retirement after 12 seasons

[KLHJ2]

I was never sold on the guy. Give me Bruce, Holt, Faulk, and Hakim, to pair with any QB and I will make him great. I will trade him to a less talented team and he will struggle. I will then pair him with Boldin, Fitzgerald, Breaston, and Arrington and watch him revive his career.

Warner was good at getting the ball out of his hands before he got hit, luckily he had some talent on the other end to do something with it. That the way I see it and you cannot change it.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Angry

I was never sold on the guy. Give me Bruce, Holt, Faulk, and Hakim, to pair with any QB and I will make him great. I will trade him to a less talented team and he will struggle. I will then pair him with Boldin, Fitzgerald, Breaston, and Arrington and watch him revive his career.

Warner was good at getting the ball out of his hands before he got hit, luckily he had some talent on the other end to do something with it. That the way I see it and you cannot change it.

Give the guy credit. If you protect him he delivers and plays at a very high level. Warner was one of the most gifted pure passers of our time. His completion % and stats speak for themselves. He threw 100+ td's for two teams. Not many if anyone has done that. Did Bruce, Holt and Hakim have the same succes they did when Kurt was there? I'm not saying he's a HOF'er but he was damn good.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Give the guy credit. If you protect him he delivers and plays at a very high level. Warner was one of the most gifted pure passers of our time. His completion % and stats speak for themselves. He threw 100+ td's for two teams. Not many if anyone has done that. Did Bruce, Holt and Hakim have the same succes they did when Kurt was there? I'm not saying he's a HOF'er but he was damn good.

Holt and Bruce thrived in that offense (in their prime) no matter who was QB'ing it. Trent Green, Mark Bulger, or Kurt Warner.

[wolfeskins]

Originally Posted by Angry

Holt and Bruce thrived in that offense (in their prime) no matter who was QB'ing it. Trent Green, Mark Bulger, or Kurt Warner.

but who took them to and won the superbowl ?

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by wolfeskins

but who took them to and won the superbowl ?

Whichever QB just happened to lead them in 1999. Any one of them could have done it that year. That offense was even more unstoppable in 2000 and they could have won it then too. Green Started 8 games that year BTW.

[wolfeskins]

Originally Posted by Angry

Whichever QB just happened to lead them in 1999. Any one of them could have done it that year. That offense was even more unstoppable in 2000 and they could have won it then too. Green Started 8 games that year BTW.

He still played at a high level after leaving San Fran without Rice.
__________________



you just won't admit your wrong, will you.

how many teams has warner been the starting qb for ? 3, if thats correct then he has taken 2 out of the 3 to the superbowl and out of the two trips to the big game he's won 1. thats pretty impressive too me. btw, who was the mvp of the 1 he won ?

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by wolfeskins

He still played at a high level after leaving San Fran without Rice.
__________________



you just won't admit your wrong, will you.

how many teams has warner been the starting qb for ? 3, if thats correct then he has taken 2 out of the 3 to the superbowl and out of the two trips to the big game he's won 1. thats pretty impressive too me. btw, who was the mvp of the 1 he won ?

Your rhetoric is insulting my intelligence. I am fully aware of Warner's accolades. Considering that the MVP of the Super Bowl is usually the QB anyway, pointing out the fact that he won it isn’t really saying much.

BTW, I am not wrong until my hypothesis is wrong. If Leinart fails to put up Warner type numbers in Arizona with the same supporting cast, then I will be wrong. I will proudly admit that I am wrong if that day comes. Right now I have my opinion of Warner and I am sticking to it.

[Big C]

Originally Posted by Angry

I was never sold on the guy. Give me Bruce, Holt, Faulk, and Hakim, to pair with any QB and I will make him great. I will trade him to a less talented team and he will struggle. I will then pair him with Boldin, Fitzgerald, Breaston, and Arrington and watch him revive his career.

Warner was good at getting the ball out of his hands before he got hit, luckily he had some talent on the other end to do something with it. That the way I see it and you cannot change it.

Why has Matt Leinart sucked so much then? He has the same talent to work with there.

[wolfeskins]

Originally Posted by Big C

Why has Matt Leinart sucked so much then? He has the same talent to work with there.

i know right. kurt was a very good qb,hof worthy,imo.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by Big C

Why has Matt Leinart sucked so much then? He has the same talent to work with there.

Matt Leinart has only played in 12 games since losing his starting job to Warner because of injury. Most of them were brief spells for an injured Warner or mop up duty. He had a terrible outing in his 1 start, I agree, but he was playing well in the final 2 minutes against the Saints. I wouldn't exactly say that the guy sucks. More like he hasn't been given a shot to redeem himself in Warners shawdow.

His rookie year (Denny Greene's last) he played in 12 games, starting 11 of them and while it was not always perfect he was showing flashes. When Wisenhunt took over the following year he was still the starter except for the 2 minute drill, then he got hurt and it was all downhill from there. It was no secret though that Wisenhunt didn't like Leinart and vice versa. Rothlisberger didn't like Wisenhunt either for what it's worth.

I would like to see him (Leinart) play a full season under center before I stick a fork in him. If he succeeds though, it will mostly be to because of the talent around him also. Then and only then we will see how truly great Warner was. I honestly believe that Leinart can do just as well if not a little better.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Angry

I was never sold on the guy. Give me Bruce, Holt, Faulk, and Hakim, to pair with any QB and I will make him great. I will trade him to a less talented team and he will struggle. I will then pair him with Boldin, Fitzgerald, Breaston, and Arrington and watch him revive his career.

Warner was good at getting the ball out of his hands before he got hit, luckily he had some talent on the other end to do something with it. That the way I see it and you cannot change it.

This argument gets old and doesn't hold much water for me. Name any of the greats and I'll show you they had a great supporting cast.

My god look at the season he had in '99: 4353 yards, 41 TDs, 13 INTs, 109.2 QB rating ... Do you really think someone like Trent Dilfer would have put up those type of numbers with the Rams even with that cast?

[Zerohero]

Originally Posted by Angry

I was never sold on the guy. Give me Bruce, Holt, Faulk, and Hakim, to pair with any QB and I will make him great. I will trade him to a less talented team and he will struggle. I will then pair him with Boldin, Fitzgerald, Breaston, and Arrington and watch him revive his career.

Warner was good at getting the ball out of his hands before he got hit, luckily he had some talent on the other end to do something with it. That the way I see it and you cannot change it.

So his 2 years in Giants negate the good years? What do you not like about him, other then he was able to play with good players. Watch Leinart next year and you will see what Warner brought to the team.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by Zerohero

So his 2 years in Giants negate the good years? What do you not like about him, other then he was able to play with good players. Watch Leinart next year and you will see what Warner brought to the team.

It just supports my theory that he can not thrive without good recievers around him. Players like Brady, Manning, Brees, and Favre are capable of making recievers look great. Players Like Palmer, Warner, Bulger, and others need a strong supporting cast.

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by Angry

It just supports my theory that he can not thrive without good recievers around him. Players like Brady, Manning, Brees, and Favre are capable of making recievers look great. Players Like Palmer, Warner, Bulger, and others need a strong supporting cast.

I was never sold on Palmer when he was everyone's 3rd best QB. I did once think Bulger was going to be really good though.

But Manning could be considered in the same camp you put Warner in. He has only played with a strong supporting cast. James, Harrison, Wayne and Clark. There are 2 HOers there. I do admit that Manning is one of the best QB's of all time but he's had a ridiculous supporting cast, better then what most QB’s have worked with.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Angry

It just supports my theory that he can not thrive without good recievers around him. Players like Brady, Manning, Brees, and Favre are capable of making recievers look great. Players Like Palmer, Warner, Bulger, and others need a strong supporting cast.

Has Peyton Manning not always had a strong cast? He had Edgerrin James for a while taking pressure off the passing game when he was early in his career. He's had very strong TEs his entire career in Pollard and Clark. And how about Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne? This guy has had stud pass catchers around him since he first put on an NFL helmet. I'm not saying he's not phenomenal, because he is, but he's had some horses in his arsenal as well.

Favre is great, but he's had some studs, too. Robert Brooks, Antonio Freeman, Shannon Sharpe, Donald Driver... Not too shabby.

Brady won some Super Bowls with pretty average receivers, I'll give you that. But his best numbers came with guys like Randy Moss and Wes Welker.

Great QBs are always going to make receivers look better, and vice versa. In Warner's case, I think he was a great QB who made great receivers look even better, and I also think those receivers returned the favor.

He is probably the best QB I've ever seen against the blitz, has a career passer rating of 94 (3rd all time), and has been deadly accurate his whole career. He has 58 career 300 yard games (only Marino has more- 63), which is good for nearly 45% of the games he played in. That's crazy. The next closest QB is Dan Fouts with 28%. In the history of the NFL, only Peyton Manning has thrown for more yards per game. Oh yeah, he also won 2 MVPs.

Sure, Warner has been the beneficiary of some very good offensive talent, but the guy was amazing. I don't know angry, I see what you're getting at, but I don't think it holds much water. When you look some of the all time passing stats, some of the names around him are Montana, Marino, Young, Favre, Manning, Brady, Fouts, Starr... It's not an accident. Warner was pretty awesome.