Super Bowl XLIV Gameday Thread: Saints vs. Colts

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

Brady's Super Bowls always came with a great defense. I've always felt Mannings teams made the playoffs in spite of how mediocre the team actually was. They were last in the league in rushing this year and still made the Super Bowl. Manning deserves a lot of credit for this. Throughout NE's SB years, if Manning had been their QB, they would have won just as many if not more IMO. I don't think Brady would have had nearly as much success on the Colts.

No they didn't. Brady didn't play for the 86 Bears or the 2000 Ravens. His Defenses were good, not great. AND Manning has had WAY MORE talent around him, yet he consistently under-achieves. As a matter of fact, if it weren't for Brady's pathetic Receivers (future hall of famers, Troy Brown and Jabar Gaffney) dropping passes, last night would have been Manning's first Super Bowl. Manning is this generations Dan Marino. Brady is this generation's Joe Montana. Manning has 29TDs and 18INTs in the playoffs. AVERAGE!

Manning is Brady's bitch!

[mlmdub130]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

No they didn't. Brady didn't play for the 86 Bears or the 2000 Ravens. His Defenses were good, not great. AND Manning has had WAY MORE talent around him, yet he consistently under-achieves. As a matter of fact, if it weren't for Brady's pathetic Receivers (future hall of famers, Troy Brown and Jabar Gaffney) dropping passes, last night would have been Manning's first Super Bowl. Manning is this generations Dan Marino. Brady is this generation's Joe Montana. Manning has 29TDs and 18INTs in the playoffs. AVERAGE!

Manning is Brady's bitch!

many would argue if you take the rings out marino is a much better qb than montana

[irish]

Originally Posted by mlmdub130

many would argue if you take the rings out marino is a much better qb than montana

Absolutely, Marino is the best QB to ever play but he doesnt have any rings. Its not like this is golf where one man controls his own destiny, its a team game and maybe if Miami had a D he might have won a few titles.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by mlmdub130

many would argue if you take the rings out marino is a much better qb than montana

Take the rings out?!?! Let's take out TD passes while we're at it. And passing yards too.

Marino was awesome. Manning is awesome. No argument here.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

No they didn't. Brady didn't play for the 86 Bears or the 2000 Ravens. His Defenses were good, not great. AND Manning has had WAY MORE talent around him, yet he consistently under-achieves. As a matter of fact, if it weren't for Brady's pathetic Receivers (future hall of famers, Troy Brown and Jabar Gaffney) dropping passes, last night would have been Manning's first Super Bowl. Manning is this generations Dan Marino. Brady is this generation's Joe Montana. Manning has 29TDs and 18INTs in the playoffs. AVERAGE!

Manning is Brady's bitch!

BS. There was no comparison between Indy's defense and NE's during those years. They might not have been the Bears or Ravens but they were pretty damn good. To say otherwise is just ignorant.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

BS. There was no comparison between Indy's defense and NE's during those years. They might not have been the Bears or Ravens but they were pretty damn good. To say otherwise is just ignorant.

And there's no comparison between Indy's offense and NEs during those years either. Nobody said the Pats had bad Defenses those years, but they aren't even in the discussion of all time great Defenses. Like you said, they were pretty damn good. Not great!

Before this year, Manning was 0-3 when his team was the #1 seed going into the playoffs. Compare his team's regular seasons to their playoff performances, and they chronically UNDER-ACHIEVE!

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

No they didn't. Brady didn't play for the 86 Bears or the 2000 Ravens. His Defenses were good, not great. AND Manning has had WAY MORE talent around him, yet he consistently under-achieves. As a matter of fact, if it weren't for Brady's pathetic Receivers (future hall of famers, Troy Brown and Jabar Gaffney) dropping passes, last night would have been Manning's first Super Bowl. Manning is this generations Dan Marino. Brady is this generation's Joe Montana. Manning has 29TDs and 18INTs in the playoffs. AVERAGE!

Manning is Brady's bitch!

With all due respect, particularly to the 2006 Patriots, the better Brady's offense has gotten around him, the MORE dominant Manning has been in the head to head series.

In the time frame between 2001-2005, New England's defense was the best overall defense in the time range. They may never have had a single year where they could be in the "greatest defense of all time" debate, but you'd have to put the early-decade Patriots in the same class as the great Titans defenses from earlier this decade and the Steelers defenses from more recent times, and the mid-decade Bears as the best defensive unit of the last ten years. No defense has been better longer since the Patriots.

And Brady hasn't won anything since his defenses were relevant. He's 2-2 in his last four playoff games, and 5-4 in his last nine. We can rip Manning for his overall playoff record being out of line with his regular season record, but he hasn't been a worse (or better) quarterback in the postseason than Brady. Saying otherwise is ignoring the evidence.

It's 2010 now. You need a new narrative.

[wilsowilso]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

We can rip Manning for his overall playoff record being out of line with his regular season record, but he hasn't been a worse (or better) quarterback in the postseason than Brady. Saying otherwise is ignoring the evidence.

I call "bullshit" on this post. Only because it's absurd to suggest that Manning is in Tom Brady's league in playoff performance.

He absolutely is not.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by wilsowilso

I call "bullshit" on this post. Only because it's absurd to suggest that Manning is in Tom Brady's league in playoff performance.

He absolutely is not.

Says who?

Tom Brady Career Game Log | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Peyton Manning Career Game Log | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Each has 18 playoff starts. Manning has a QB rating 87.6, Brady has one of 85.5. QB rating is not a nearly accurate enough statistic to judge anything conclusive from that, or to say one is better than the other, but 18 football games is a lot of data, and that's a nearly identical performance--generally speaking.

[wilsowilso]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Says who?

Tom Brady Career Game Log | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Peyton Manning Career Game Log | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Each has 18 playoff starts. Manning has a QB rating 87.6, Brady has one of 85.5. QB rating is not a nearly accurate enough statistic to judge anything conclusive from that, or to say one is better than the other, but 18 football games is a lot of data, and that's a nearly identical performance--generally speaking.

Because unlike you Greg, I don't place such a high value on statistics.

Stats are very telling and useful and all, but they are far from the whole the story.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by wilsowilso

Because unlike you Greg, I don't place such a high value on statistics.

Stats are very telling and useful and all, but they are far from the whole the story.

That's fine and all, but I'm thinking that the alternative to the gross statistical totals (which are--as you pointed out--far from the whole story) is stuff that happened more than five years ago, when a 26 year old Brady was thought to be, if nothing else, more "clutch" than a 28 year old Manning.

Which is, in my opinion, not more inclusive than the statistics show, but far less.

I don't wish to make a conclusive argument that Manning and Brady are playoff equals, I just wish to show that there's no noticeable difference between what one has done and what the other has. And if there's not a noticeable difference, then unsupported quips that suggest that EVERYONE should know that the statistics are wrong are just that- unsupported.

Not wrong. Not by any means. Just unsupported.

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Says who?

Tom Brady Career Game Log | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Peyton Manning Career Game Log | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Each has 18 playoff starts. Manning has a QB rating 87.6, Brady has one of 85.5. QB rating is not a nearly accurate enough statistic to judge anything conclusive from that, or to say one is better than the other, but 18 football games is a lot of data, and that's a nearly identical performance--generally speaking.

This was before this year's playoffs:

Brady vs. Manning - CBSSports.com

Joe Montana Tom Brady Peyton Manning
Playoff Record: 16-7 14-3 7-8
Playoff TD-INT: 45-21 26-12 22-17
Playoff Passer Rating: 95.6 93.4 84.6
Super Bowl Record: 4-0 3-1 1-0
Super Bowl TD-INT: 11-0 7-1 1-1
Super Bowl Passer Rating: 127.8 99.88 81.80
Super Bowl MVP’s: 3 2 1

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

This was before this year's playoffs:

Brady vs. Manning - CBSSports.com

Joe Montana Tom Brady Peyton Manning
Playoff Record: 16-7 14-3 7-8
Playoff TD-INT: 45-21 26-12 22-17
Playoff Passer Rating: 95.6 93.4 84.6
Super Bowl Record: 4-0 3-1 1-0
Super Bowl TD-INT: 11-0 7-1 1-1
Super Bowl Passer Rating: 127.8 99.88 81.80
Super Bowl MVP’s: 3 2 1

This is strong evidence and all, but I want to suggest that the significance of it all could be brought into question by simply adding another year of performance to the equation, particularly one that brings Brady and Manning to the same number of playoff starts, completely eliminates the performance differences between them.

Montana brings me to another great point. There's a guy who had a great playoff career. Excellent playoff performer. But if you cut off his career at 1985 or 1986, not so much. Montana's playoff numbers only became great due to what he accomplished in his thirties.

Therefore, the less time we allow Manning to perform in the playoffs, the weaker his playoff argument gets. We absolutely HAVE to include this year in the analysis, and probably, this playoff quarterback comparison cannot end until Brady and Manning both reach the point of their careers where they are complementary parts in their offenses.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

This was before this year's playoffs:

Brady vs. Manning - CBSSports.com

Joe Montana Tom Brady Peyton Manning
Playoff Record: 16-7 14-3 7-8
Playoff TD-INT: 45-21 26-12 22-17
Playoff Passer Rating: 95.6 93.4 84.6
Super Bowl Record: 4-0 3-1 1-0
Super Bowl TD-INT: 11-0 7-1 1-1
Super Bowl Passer Rating: 127.8 99.88 81.80
Super Bowl MVP’s: 3 2 1

you guys and your nerdy stats. i mean montana, brady and manning are all great qb's. manning hasn't had as much successs in the playoffs for what ever reason. he's still a great qb.