The Mid Round QB fallacy

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Based on the link, this is his HS to college scouting report.

There are certainly questions about McCoy's his arm strength:

Colt McCoy, 2010 NFL Draft Prospect

WalterFootball.com: 2010 NFL Draft Scouting Report: Colt McCoy

Colt McCoy, Texas, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

His performances in the Big 12 Title game and BCS Championship also leave some questions to be answered. His number of completions under 10yds is also pretty high, if I remember correctly.

If we go LT with the # 4 and the choice is between him or your other scenario with Pouncey in the second, I take Pouncey. I really like your idea if Clausen is gone.

Thanks for the correction you're 100% right that was a HS report, i should have caught that.

And you're right there are some scouts that have concerns about his arm strength.

But, its one thing to have questions about certain aspects of his arm strength almost every QB coming out except for a few like Claussen and Brown have questions about there arm strength. But, saying that there are question is quite different from saying he has one of the weakest arms in the draft.

Although i visit some of the site you mentioned i only do so because they have links and data compiled in one place. But a lot of those guys have no more scouting credentials then you or I.

And McGuire at Walters gives some of the least professional 'scouting' reports that i've seen.

You're right though he does throw a high % of short passes but that's a by product of the system and when you put up insane efficiency numbers your bound to throw a lot of slants, hitches and screens.

Its not unique to McCoy or to the spread; i hate to compare college offenses to pros but plenty of QBs like Bress, Brady, McNabb, throw a lot of RB/WR screens and it helps run an effecient offense.

I agree that McCoy doesn't make those 'NFL' throws often but he does and can make them.

I feel like we're side-tracking this thread into a QB discussion but...when i was snowed in last week i looked at alot of youtube cuts ups and downloaded some games of the Bradford, Claussen and McCoy.

And i don't see a huge difference in their skillsets.

I broke down the Texas Vs UCF game and McCoy makes some of those NFL throws that people are looking for and if you look at the other game shorts you'll see he makes a few of those 'stick' throws every game.

Seriously, you take a look he throws 17 passes in the short cuts.
A greater concern about McCoy is that he often doesn't plant hard on his lead leg and ends up using his arm to drive the ball instead of his legs. But i digress.

*If anyone wants to compare notes from the UCF short cuts send a PM

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

The thing that scares me about McCoy is what appears to be a lack of variety in his throws. In watching his highlights it feels like every 3 out of 4 throws is to the middle of the field and very rarely longer then 15 yards.

I could be wrong but I want to see a wider array of throws from McCoy especially outs, comebacks, Hitch n Goes, Fades, deep post, etc. Right now I feel like most of the throws I see from him are swings, slants, and 7 yard digs.

Part of the reason I'm high on Clausen is he has a lot of highlights where he makes a lot of those difficult throws. Bradford also seems to have a handful of tough throws, though I must admit that he throws a lot of slants and swings himself. It's just that McCoy seems to do it so often that I'm not very confident in his ability to be a QB at the next level.

I don't think he's much different from Bradford when it comes to throwing short passes, its a by product of system predicated on effeciency.

But, if you look at any of the short-cuts you'll see the throws you're looking for granted the ball doesn't jump of his arm like Clausen but McCoy makes a few stick throws everygame but his offense wasn't built around those passes.

I don't think McCoy questions marks are about wether or not he'll make it as an NFL QB i think his questions are how long will it take.

[30gut]

I didn't know where else to put it, but here's my breakdown of McCoy in the Texas Vs UCF game:
R is where the pass was releases C is where it was caught
t/t - on time on target s/p/d/f-step into throw/plant the leg/drive the ball/follow through

YouTube - Texas Vs UCF Highlights 11/07/09

1) R34/C54 Out on time/target-good step/plant drive+follow thru w/ people around him

2) Quick screen good

3)R7/C22 Comeback-good t/t,g s/p/d/f

4)R19/C39 good scramble kept eyes downfield steps into it on target

5)R46/C32 kinda half steps it/slings it but on t/t

6)R25/C41 good pass on t/t-s/p/d good coverage

7)R45/C37 half steps w/o plant/drive but slung it out there pretty good on t/t

8)R51/C23 more then a half-step but not a pronounced plant and drive, good pass (i think i'm starting to nit-pick here)

9)R1/C29 sprint/roll right step into throw but off balance nice pass though t/t

10) R29/C52 short/half step but on t/t tight window good accuracy
* showed nice athleticism

11)R37own/C38theirs out right t/t good s/p/d

12) roll right gets steps into throw on the run good coverage but better accuracy

13)R8/C-5 endzone good pocket poise on run tight window nice pass

14)R5endzone/C8 good anticipation/trust a bit off target good delivery

15)R5/C@their 45 Shipley toasted that DB nice route good delivery on target pass

16)R50/C40 good delivery

17)R37/C25 nice fluid delivery didn't 'fire' the ball but didn't have too

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by 30gut

But, saying that there are question is quite different from saying he has one of the weakest arms in the draft.

Agreed. McCoy is certainly not the weakest arm in the draft.

Although i visit some of the site you mentioned i only do so because they have links and data compiled in one place. But a lot of those guys have no more scouting credentials then you or I.

And McGuire at Walters gives some of the least professional 'scouting' reports that i've seen.

Same here. I agree with McGuire's Clausen breakdowns and the reasoning behind it, but he does go a bit overboard on some of the negative comments on certain players.

I feel like we're side-tracking this thread into a QB discussion but...when i was snowed in last week i looked at alot of youtube cuts ups and downloaded some games of the Bradford, Claussen and McCoy.

And i don't see a huge difference in their skillsets.

You've seen my opinions of Clausen so I won't rehash, but I agree with you on Bradford vs. McCoy. Bradford has more prototypical NFL size and a stronger arm, but their skillsets are similar otherwise.

I broke down the Texas Vs UCF game and McCoy makes some of those NFL throws that people are looking for and if you look at the other game shorts you'll see he makes a few of those 'stick' throws every game.

Good stuff on the breakdown, I had to mute the speaker while watching the clip....the background music was killing me. LOL

The one thing I notice about McCoy (and clips of Bradford also) is that they are often throwing to wide open receivers, that won't happen at the next level near as often

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Same here. I agree with McGuire's Clausen breakdowns and the reasoning behind it, but he does go a bit overboard on some of the negative comments on certain players.

I think he did a good job with his Clausen breakdown, except he refered to the offense as WCO as far as i know Weis comes from the Parcells tree and most of those guys run the Erdhart-Perkins.

The one thing I notice about McCoy (and clips of Bradford also) is that they are often throwing to wide open receivers, that won't happen at the next level near as often

Yeah, Bradford and McCoy were playing 'pitch and catch' on most of their throws. (Which makes me wonder about Golden Tate for such a highly touted WR he doesn't seem to get that much seperation especially compared to a dude like Shipley.)

*I wish they were all throwing at the combine it would answer so many question to see them throw in the same settings. But, i think McCoy is gonna throw.

Good stuff on the breakdown, I had to mute the speaker while watching the clip....the background music was killing me. LOL

Yeah, that music was weird classical-rock mix horrible...
I should have marked the passes i thought were a good indication of 'NFL' ability: 6 (2:01), 7 (2:18), 8 (2:25), 9 (3:25), 11 (4:35), 13 (5:14), 15 (6:37)

[Dirtbag59]

This is for the "weak QB class people." Per John Clayton:

Overall, it's an interesting class of quarterbacks. As many as nine could go in the first four rounds. Jevan Snead of Mississippi could use a good throwing performance to change perceptions that he made a mistake by turning pro too early. Accuracy was a problem in his final season in college.