Bradford/Clausen now split among Mock Drafts

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

The Bradford camp doesn't believe in offensive lines. They just get in the way of QBs.

You're right. You're 100% right. I'm really hoping we don't make any trades, don't sign any free agents, simply skip out on making any other selections during the draft and that we just pick Bradford at #4 and go home. It would totally piss me off if we sign Ben Hamilton as a FA, draft an LT like Brown, Campbell, or Fox at the top of the 2nd round, trade into the 3rd and pick up an RT like Calloway, spend a 4th on an interior lineman...that would really grind my gears. Because all I want is Sam Bradford and nothing else. After all, the off-season is all about the 1st round pick and nothing else, isn't it?

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

You're right. You're 100% right. I'm really hoping we don't make any trades, don't sign any free agents, simply skip out on making any other selections during the draft and that we just pick Bradford at #4 and go home. It would totally piss me off if we sign Ben Hamilton as a FA, draft an LT like Brown, Campbell, or Fox at the top of the 2nd round, trade into the 3rd and pick up an RT like Calloway, spend a 4th on an interior lineman...that would really grind my gears. Because all I want is Sam Bradford and nothing else. After all, the off-season is all about the 1st round pick and nothing else, isn't it?

Yeah, but they could also pick up Okung with the #4, and a solid RT with #2 or in the later rounds, and you have your tackles for the next 10 years (if everything works out).

While I get what you are doing, you're one of the few people in the Bradford camp that actually makes an argument on how to build the line and drafting Bradford, without saying "Shanahan is know to build offensive lines with just about anyone."

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Yeah, but they could also pick up Okung with the #4, and a solid RT with #2 or in the later rounds, and you have your tackles for the next 10 years (if everything works out).

While I get what you are doing, you're one of the few people in the Bradford camp that actually makes an argument on how to build the line and drafting Bradford, without saying "Shanahan is know to build offensive lines with just about anyone."

I agree with you about that reasoning. We keep hearing that Shanahan can turn any lineman (or back) into a solid performer. If that were true, Denver would have been #1 in offense every single year. I'm willing to give Shanahan somewhat of a pass in respect to his expertise but the "he can turn anyone..." arguments are dangerous and mistaken.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Yeah, but they could also pick up Okung with the #4, and a solid RT with #2 or in the later rounds, and you have your tackles for the next 10 years (if everything works out).

When do we get the elite QB to get us to a SB contention level? If we get the OL this draft and our D performs in the top half of the league, we're a .500 team. It's extremely unlikey an elite QB hits FA. If we're at .500 we're picking in the 14-18 range, no elite QB prospects there for 2011. So do we continue to have average QB play and try to build a dominant D and run game (Ravens/Jets/2000 Ravens/2002 Bucs)? How do we get past .500 to SB contention level without an elite QB?

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

When do we get the elite QB to get us to a SB contention level? If we get the OL this draft and our D performs in the top half of the league, we're a .500 team. It's extremely unlikey an elite QB hits FA. If we're at .500 we're picking in the 14-18 range, no elite QB prospects there for 2011. So do we continue to have average QB play and try to build a dominant D and run game (Ravens/Jets/2000 Ravens/2002 Bucs)? How do we get past .500 to SB contention level without an elite QB?

So you're banking on the fact that Bradford is the sure thing? Even if he's elite, but our offensive line sucks because all we got were old UFAs and low-round picks to build the worst offensive line from 2009, what's not to say that Bradford doesn't become the next David Carr? We're back to square one with the same QB and offensive line problems. If you want your elite QB so bad, in 2011, after building the offensive line with Okung or Davis, you can trade up from the mid-first round to get your elite QB. Hell,you can probably even play him right away the way Baltimore and the Jets have done with their rookie QBs.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

So you're banking on the fact that Bradford is the sure thing? Even if he's elite, but our offensive line sucks because all we got were old UFAs and low-round picks to build the worst offensive line from 2009, what's not to say that Bradford doesn't become the next David Carr? We're back to square one with the same QB and offensive line problems. If you want your elite QB so bad, in 2011, after building the offensive line with Okung or Davis, you can trade up from the mid-first round to get your elite QB. Hell,you can probably even play him right away the way Baltimore and the Jets have done with their rookie QBs.

I first want to say that I am not partisan here and would be happy with either an OT or a QB at #4.

But I think it would be easier in 2011 to trade up to get a stud tackle than it would be to trade up to get an elite QB. Elite QB's typically go in the top 5 or maybe top 10 picks, whereas very good tackles can be found all over the first round.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

So you're banking on the fact that Bradford is the sure thing? Even if he's elite, but our offensive line sucks because all we got were old UFAs and low-round picks to build the worst offensive line from 2009, what's not to say that Bradford doesn't become the next David Carr? We're back to square one with the same QB and offensive line problems. If you want your elite QB so bad, in 2011, after building the offensive line with Okung or Davis, you can trade up from the mid-first round to get your elite QB. Hell,you can probably even play him right away the way Baltimore and the Jets have done with their rookie QBs.

I'm not banking on Bradford. I'm banking on Clausen. He's the only QB I would use the #4 pick on. That's just me, I have no idea how Shanahan/Allen have Bradford/Clausen rated.

Our OL isn't going to be in the shambles it was last year. I think we can agree Dock is fine. Rabach is serviceable but needs to be replaced soon. Between Levi Jones and Heyer we can produce a serviceable RT. At the top of the second we may find Brown from USC, Campbell from UMD, Asamoah, or Pouncey from UF. UFAs Bridges, Pashos can provide depth at T. I'm not ready to give up on Rinehart and/or E. Williams developing at G. Better scheme, better playcalling will also help the OL.

The David Carr thing doesn't work, we're not an expansion team and we have excellent offensive minds at HC & OC. Didn't Carr run a spread at Fresno St.?

Who are the elite QBs for 2011, Locker, maybe Luck. Now way I'm giving up what it would cost in picks/players to get into the top 5 to get one of those two, even if they are elite. We have the pick to get an elite QB now, we need to get it done if Clausen is there.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

When do we get the elite QB to get us to a SB contention level? If we get the OL this draft and our D performs in the top half of the league, we're a .500 team. It's extremely unlikey an elite QB hits FA. If we're at .500 we're picking in the 14-18 range, no elite QB prospects there for 2011. So do we continue to have average QB play and try to build a dominant D and run game (Ravens/Jets/2000 Ravens/2002 Bucs)? How do we get past .500 to SB contention level without an elite QB?

An elite offense player at ANY position, quarterback or anywhere else, probably gets us past .500.

And again, if there's an elite quarterback in this draft, someone with the ideal height, arm, accuracy, mental makeup, and college production, my methods certainly aren't good enough to find him. Bradford, I think, is the one guy who even passes the smell test, but even then, I wouldn't spend a top pick on a guy who I haven't seen deliver the ball under duress in college.

We should at least try to draft an elite offensive player at No. 4. Saying that we need a franchise qb (whatever the heck that is) shrinks the possible talent pool by 80-90 percent. We need way to much help to limit the search to one position. And I'd use the same argument for the OT...except that Davis and Okung come ahead of any RB or WR or QB on most boards. I think there's a general consensus that the three highest rated players (as opposed to best prospects) are some combination of Davis, Okung, and Bradford.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

We should at least try to draft an elite offensive player at No. 4. Saying that we need a franchise qb (whatever the heck that is) shrinks the possible talent pool by 80-90 percent. We need way to much help to limit the search to one position. And I'd use the same argument for the OT...except that Davis and Okung come ahead of any RB or WR or QB on most boards. I think there's a general consensus that the three highest rated players (as opposed to best prospects) are some combination of Davis, Okung, and Bradford.

Not so fast my friend....certainly not a consensus, me and Mel have "broken from the draft pack"

Redskins Insider - Kiper's argument for the Redskins drafting Clausen

From the article: "In the case of a player like Clausen or Bradford, I would take the quarterback first. I have Clausen and Bradford rated higher than Davis and Okung. So I would go the quarterback first, then try to get the offensive tackle in the second round and hope that a Bruce Campbell or a Bulaga or somebody like that fell down to me."

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Not so fast my friend....certainly not a consensus, me and Mel have "broken from the draft pack"

Redskins Insider - Kiper's argument for the Redskins drafting Clausen

From the article: "In the case of a player like Clausen or Bradford, I would take the quarterback first. I have Clausen and Bradford rated higher than Davis and Okung. So I would go the quarterback first, then try to get the offensive tackle in the second round and hope that a Bruce Campbell or a Bulaga or somebody like that fell down to me."

I posted this earlier on David Garrard and personally it sounds way to close to home:

2009 Season Outlook
It's unfair to judge Garrard too harshly for his 2008 numbers. The interior of the Jacksonville offensive line, previously a strength, was pummeled by injury early in the season, leading Garrard to the ignominious crown of most knocked-down quarterback of the year. Despite the heat, Garrard managed a decent completion percentage (61.1) and finished 10th in the NFL in passing yards. The Jags have concerns at tackle for '09 but did use their first two picks on Eugene Monroe and Eben Britton, and they should rely heavily on those rookies. But unless Torry Holt finds the Fountain of Youth or another receiver steps up, Garrard won't be a fantasy starter. However, he's a heady decision-maker and could lead the league in rush yards by a quarterback. He's a bye-week quarterback with a high ceiling.

I'm personally glad I'm not Bruce Allen because this is a tough decision. Do you go with Campbell and hope to recapture the first half of 2008 magic that you had going and if you do can you win the Super Bowl? Or worst yet do you fix the O-Line and find that Jason is still just an above average QB leaving you stuck at 8-8 or 9-7 and out of range to draft the top rookie QB's? Theres so much to consider here it's not even funny.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

When do we get the elite QB to get us to a SB contention level? If we get the OL this draft and our D performs in the top half of the league, we're a .500 team. It's extremely unlikey an elite QB hits FA. If we're at .500 we're picking in the 14-18 range, no elite QB prospects there for 2011. So do we continue to have average QB play and try to build a dominant D and run game (Ravens/Jets/2000 Ravens/2002 Bucs)? How do we get past .500 to SB contention level without an elite QB?

You don't is the answer. Look at the super bowl winners since the skins last won in 1991. All but like 2 of the super bowls were won by a team with an elite QB. That timeframe is also the start of the free agency era of the NFL. In the era of free agency all the teams have holes and no position covers up more holes then a great QB. If Shanahaan thinks one of these QB's is franchise material then they need to draft him no matter what else is available.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Yeah, but they could also pick up Okung with the #4, and a solid RT with #2 or in the later rounds, and you have your tackles for the next 10 years (if everything works out).

While I get what you are doing, you're one of the few people in the Bradford camp that actually makes an argument on how to build the line and drafting Bradford, without saying "Shanahan is know to build offensive lines with just about anyone."

It seems that most people making the argument of a QB are saying the same thing as Smoot

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

You're right. You're 100% right. I'm really hoping we don't make any trades, don't sign any free agents, simply skip out on making any other selections during the draft and that we just pick Bradford at #4 and go home. It would totally piss me off if we sign Ben Hamilton as a FA, draft an LT like Brown, Campbell, or Fox at the top of the 2nd round, trade into the 3rd and pick up an RT like Calloway, spend a 4th on an interior lineman...that would really grind my gears. Because all I want is Sam Bradford and nothing else. After all, the off-season is all about the 1st round pick and nothing else, isn't it?

Excellent point SS. People keep treating the #4 pick like it is the only opportunity that we have to upgrade the team, when in fact it is just one opportunity (if a good one) among many.