Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?

[celts32]

Originally Posted by DIE-NASTY

a 3 and a 5? I think I'd rather keep the guy. He has shown flashes that he can play at a high level. Let's assemble a real NFL-caliber offensive line. Who knows if the guys we pick by trading JC to Buff will pan out.

I think a 3 and a 5 is good value. I am surprised if we can even get a 3.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by celts32

I think a 3 and a 5 is good value. I am surprised if we can even get a 3.

For Campbell? Why not? It's not like he was putting up JaMarcus Russell or Derek Anderson numbers last season.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

For Campbell? Why not? It's not like he was putting up JaMarcus Russell or Derek Anderson numbers last season.

Because he hasn't really done much. He will probably never be more then a pretty good player. Russell is worthless but why would JC be worth more then Derek Anderson? Anderson had a season a couple years ago that was better then anything JC has done. I don't want to completely trash JC but i just think it's time to move on and i would be thrilled to get a #3 pick in the process.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by celts32

Because he hasn't really done much. He will probably never be more then a pretty good player. Russell is worthless but why would JC be worth more then Derek Anderson? Anderson had a season a couple years ago that was better then anything JC has done. I don't want to completely trash JC but i just think it's time to move on and i would be thrilled to get a #3 pick in the process.

Anderson was good a couple of seasons ago, but stats-wise JC played better than him and Russell last season. And while yes, stats are not everything (a blasphemy for GTripp), I'm sure a number of QB-starved teams would focus on that (just has some teams fall in love with combine results).

That being said, while I would definitely welcome a good draft pick for Campbell, I don't think we necessarily need to part ways with him. Other people are in charge now (not Vinny or Snyder) and even if we draft Bradford or Clausen, we need a QB to start right away so we don't throw a rook QB into the fire.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Anderson was good a couple of seasons ago, but stats-wise JC played better than him and Russell last season. And while yes, stats are not everything (a blasphemy for GTripp), I'm sure a number of QB-starved teams would focus on that (just has some teams fall in love with combine results).

That being said, while I would definitely welcome a good draft pick for Campbell, I don't think we necessarily need to part ways with him. Other people are in charge now (not Vinny or Snyder) and even if we draft Bradford or Clausen, we need a QB to start right away so we don't throw a rook QB into the fire.

Lets see... the Falcons did pretty well throwing a Rook into the fire as did Detroit, Baltimore, and the Jets. I too believe stats aren't everything. I believe there is more JC then his excellent stats people keep refering to. Yes he's "Safe" with the ball. Safe doesn't mean he is connecting with his receivers all the time, it simply means he's not fumbling, or throwing interceptions. JC got around the latter by throwing the ball out of bounds so no one could get it or throwing a dirt ball.

What it doesn't speak to is his failure to read defenses and adjust his protection, get through his progressions fast enough, failure to finess the ball in some situations (it's not all about drilling the ball with power), and accuracy (too many balls behind the receivers or over thrown).

But since he was a starter for a few yrs I'd think we would get a low 1st round out of him or 2nd round. I'd settle for a 2nd round but you have to go with what the market will give or keep him. If a 3rd and a 5th is all we can get then either cut Collins and keep JC as our Vet or take the trade.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Lets see... the Falcons did pretty well throwing a Rook into the fire as did Detroit, Baltimore, and the Jets. I too believe stats aren't everything. I believe there is more JC then his excellent stats people keep refering to. Yes he's "Safe" with the ball. Safe doesn't mean he is connecting with his receivers all the time, it simply means he's not fumbling, or throwing interceptions. JC got around the latter by throwing the ball out of bounds so no one could get it or throwing a dirt ball.

What it doesn't speak to is his failure to read defenses and adjust his protection, get through his progressions fast enough, failure to finess the ball in some situations (it's not all about drilling the ball with power), and accuracy (too many balls behind the receivers or over thrown).

But since he was a starter for a few yrs I'd think we would get a low 1st round out of him or 2nd round. I'd settle for a 2nd round but you have to go with what the market will give or keep him. If a 3rd and a 5th is all we can get then either cut Collins and keep JC as our Vet or take the trade.

I don't want to get into another JC argument, but once again people like you that point flaws at just the QB drive me insane.

Campbell has his flaws, but he's not the turd that some fans make him out to be....JaMarcus Russell, now there's a turd that's worth nothing. If there's a good trade opportunity, then the team should take it....if not, keep JC, if not, then keep him until whatever rook we pick up is ready to take the reins.

Even Shanahan did not throw Cutler into the fire right away, and I don't think he should throw a Bradford or Clausen into the fire right away. We have a terrible line that it will be rebuilt (hopefully), but it will be unproven once the 2010 season begins. That alone should be the reason why you don't want your priced #4 draft pick rookie behind center on day 1.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I don't want to get into another JC argument, but once again people like you that point flaws at just the QB drive me insane.

Campbell has his flaws, but he's not the turd that some fans make him out to be....JaMarcus Russell, now there's a turd that's worth nothing. If there's a good trade opportunity, then the team should take it....if not, keep JC, if not, then keep him until whatever rook we pick up is ready to take the reins.

Even Shanahan did not throw Cutler into the fire right away, and I don't think he should throw a Bradford or Clausen into the fire right away. We have a terrible line that it will be rebuilt (hopefully), but it will be unproven once the 2010 season begins. That alone should be the reason why you don't want your priced #4 draft pick rookie behind center on day 1.

I'm not a Russell fan. Yes he sucks. I don't think anyone would have picked him up but the Raiders cause Al Davis likes his players to be the fastes out of the draft. Forget skills.

I too agree we should keep JC. As much as I'm bashing him.... he is safe with the ball. I'd cut Collins and keep JC as our Vet. I see no other Vets out there that are better then him. Which means I'm making him a backup unless the Rookie QB needs time as you said. Dude I'm with on this. I just don't think JC is our Franchise QB and am ready to move on in the sense that we need to be looking for our Franchise QB. We simply can't keep saying after 6yrs "maybe JC will work out this yr". He's a great backup. Nothing more. Keep him cause if he's required to start the season or be backup and step into a game he will be safe with the ball and not be a screw up like some back ups.... ie; Collins.

I guarentee you just like Smootsmack has said Shanahan will not let the OL be mediocre. stop fretting. If nothing else know that Shanahan was know to have the best OL's in the NFL. He'll get what he needs. and as far as Rookie QB being thrown into the fire you oppinion and mine has always been one of the interesting debates among coach's. Some believe in throwing the Rookie in right away as the Falcons, Ravens, and Jets have and they had some success. Then there's the other side of the coin, look at Patrick Ramsey. Throwing a Rookie in with no protection will destroy the teams valuable draft pick. I totally agree. I guess I just have more faith in Shanahan fixing this cluster of an OL then other people.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I don't want to get into another JC argument, but once again people like you that point flaws at just the QB drive me insane.

Campbell has his flaws, but he's not the turd that some fans make him out to be....JaMarcus Russell, now there's a turd that's worth nothing. If there's a good trade opportunity, then the team should take it....if not, keep JC, if not, then keep him until whatever rook we pick up is ready to take the reins.

Even Shanahan did not throw Cutler into the fire right away, and I don't think he should throw a Bradford or Clausen into the fire right away. We have a terrible line that it will be rebuilt (hopefully), but it will be unproven once the 2010 season begins. That alone should be the reason why you don't want your priced #4 draft pick rookie behind center on day 1.

It says a lot about JC when you are saying he's less of a turd than Russell. Talk about setting the bar low. You are right, I'll take JC over JR any day.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by celts32

Because he hasn't really done much. He will probably never be more then a pretty good player. Russell is worthless but why would JC be worth more then Derek Anderson? Anderson had a season a couple years ago that was better then anything JC has done. I don't want to completely trash JC but i just think it's time to move on and i would be thrilled to get a #3 pick in the process.

A pretty good player at the quarterback position though should grab more in a trade than a pretty good player at the defensive tackle position, for example.

I would propose that Campbell has had three better seasons than Anderson's best, but I'm probably overrating Campbell's 2007 in doing that (he had some talent around him that year, probably comparable to what Anderson had). Anderson more or less has three good games in his career, and those haven't weathered the test of time.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

A pretty good player at the quarterback position though should grab more in a trade than a pretty good player at the defensive tackle position, for example.

I would propose that Campbell has had three better seasons than Anderson's best, but I'm probably overrating Campbell's 2007 in doing that (he had some talent around him that year, probably comparable to what Anderson had). Anderson more or less has three good games in his career, and those haven't weathered the test of time.

I think we differ on what "pretty good" means. I see him as a game manager...I think he is a low end starter or a very good backup. I don't see him taking a team anywhere unless it is a great team that can win with a QB that doesn't make a lot of plays or mistakes. To me a 3rd round pick is pretty good for that type of player.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by celts32

I think we differ on what "pretty good" means. I see him as a game manager...I think he is a low end starter or a very good backup. I don't see him taking a team anywhere unless it is a great team that can win with a QB that doesn't make a lot of plays or mistakes. To me a 3rd round pick is pretty good for that type of player.

But, as everyone knows, backup QB's (outside of Jim Sorgi) often see important playing time and thus are important themselves. So, for example, Dallas traded a starting corner (Henry) to obtain a reliable backup QB (Kitna). A good backup QB is worth gold. If JC is at best a backup, he'd still be the best backup in the league. It would be a shame for us to lose the best backup QB in the league for only a 3rd round pick.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by Lotus

But, as everyone knows, backup QB's (outside of Jim Sorgi) often see important playing time and thus are important themselves. So, for example, Dallas traded a starting corner (Henry) to obtain a reliable backup QB (Kitna). A good backup QB is worth gold. If JC is at best a backup, he'd still be the best backup in the league. It would be a shame for us to lose the best backup QB in the league for only a 3rd round pick.

I don't think Kitna or Henry are worth a 3rd round pick. But I am not disputing the value of a good backup QB either. However, I don't see any way that JC can be the backup on the Redskins. If JC is not going to be the starter for Shanahan then all involved will need a fresh start. He will not want to be the backup here and we do not need the distraction of having a player that dosn't want to be here.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Lotus

But, as everyone knows, backup QB's (outside of Jim Sorgi) often see important playing time and thus are important themselves. So, for example, Dallas traded a starting corner (Henry) to obtain a reliable backup QB (Kitna). A good backup QB is worth gold. If JC is at best a backup, he'd still be the best backup in the league. It would be a shame for us to lose the best backup QB in the league for only a 3rd round pick.

BINGO!

In most cases starters are worth a 1st round pick unless they are old or a problem ie; R.Moss, T.O. and so on. JC has another good 6-7 yrs left on him. I'd take a very low #1 draft pick or a 2nd rounder for him. But if there are no bites and someone offers a 3rd and a 5th what do you do? No bites and two picks for him... I'd have to see what Vet I had in mind to replace him with before excepting the offer.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by celts32

I think we differ on what "pretty good" means. I see him as a game manager...I think he is a low end starter or a very good backup. I don't see him taking a team anywhere unless it is a great team that can win with a QB that doesn't make a lot of plays or mistakes. To me a 3rd round pick is pretty good for that type of player.

I agree with you except I think your pushing the game manager stuff a bit either that or I'm getting game manager and clock manager combined. I don't think he's a good clock manager.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

I agree with you except I think your pushing the game manager stuff a bit either that or I'm getting game manager and clock manager combined. I don't think he's a good clock manager.

No I didn't mean clock manager at all. I just mean he's a decent player. He is not taking a team anywhere that it could not have gone without him basically. A lot of QB's in the NFL lose games on their own...he's not in that group either. He's just okay...and I for one am tired of "okay" when it comes to the QB of the Redskins. I want the Redskins to find a Franchise QB that can be the reason they win games. I look forward to one day loading this website and not finding any threads talking about what we are going to do at the QB position.