Redskins trading out of the 4 spot?

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

No.... we want a QB that has potential to work out. We already have drafted a QB that has not worked out in Campbell and Brennan.

And part of the reason why that QB hasn't worked is because we just focused on skill position players and had a turd for an offensive line.

I know someone will come and try to rip me a new one because I bash the people that want a QB, but I just don't understand how these people can be so non-chalant (sp?) about the offensive line.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

And part of the reason why that QB hasn't worked is because we just focused on skill position players and had a turd for an offensive line.

I know someone will come and try to rip me a new one because I bash the people that want a QB, but I just don't understand how these people can be so non-chalant (sp?) about the offensive line.

Not going to bash you. Just pointing out you said you want atleast a OL picked up in the 2nd round. We can still do that. I can tell you I was one of those skill position people and was estatic after Thomas, Kelly, and Davis were drafted. I can tell you after this year I have been on the OL, OL, OL, bandwagon. I know I don't sound like it but I'm using reason vs. simply saying "We need OL so they better go get it."

Think about it. Just about every HC that takes over a team is because they were a crappy team prior. Then the HC drafts a QB he thinks will work out best for his system. So lets say Shanahan does the same thing (which is proven to be most likely), then we can trade of some trade value players ie; Moss, Landry, Campbell, get more draft picks for our OL, and get a Vet QB that either M.Shanahan knows and likes or K.Shanahan knows and likes.

But keep in mind, we can't pick up every one we need in one draft, and we are more then 1 player away from getting to the SB. So lets pick up our "Field General" while we have a high draft pick, pick up several OL in this draft and through FA, and see where we can pick up a LB, NT, and FS. Thats not even mentioning a possible RB. Will CP be cleared to play? Do we want to settle with aged players in Betts and Cartwright? will Ganther, Mason, and Alridge be better in the new blocking sheme? or do we look to FA or draft a young buck for the new scheme?

Plus like you being so tired of hearing about Shanahan getting great production out of mid to late round talent, I'm tired of hearing about all the excuses for JC. Yes the OL sucked. But on almost every play I could count 4-7 seconds he had to do something with the ball, which by the way is about the time most QB's have to get rid of the ball, to only witness JC throw it away or behind the reciever. That's not even counting the times he failed to adjust his protection to the correct side or change the play to a more suitable play. Campbell had 4-7 seconds. Go look. Thats why the WCO designed 3, 5, and 7 step drops then added hitches(forward skip steps) so it kinda helps the QB know when to get rid of the ball with out having to sit back there looking over the field saying "one thousand and one, one thousand and two.... oh crap I'm gunna get hit any second." I literally screamed at the tv saying throw the damn ball. But I think part of the problem was Zorn's scheme. It sucked. Just like many DC said when asked about the Skins offense. I mean look a Bingo caller came in and got better production out of the players we had and against better teams.

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Not going to bash you. Just pointing out you said you want atleast a OL picked up in the 2nd round. We can still do that. I can tell you I was one of those skill position people and was estatic after Thomas, Kelly, and Davis were drafted. I can tell you after this year I have been on the OL, OL, OL, bandwagon. I know I don't sound like it but I'm using reason vs. simply saying "We need OL so they better go get it."

Think about it. Just about every HC that takes over a team is because they were a crappy team prior. Then the HC drafts a QB he thinks will work out best for his system. So lets say Shanahan does the same thing (which is proven to be most likely), then we can trade of some trade value players ie; Moss, Landry, Campbell, get more draft picks for our OL, and get a Vet QB that either M.Shanahan knows and likes or K.Shanahan knows and likes.

But keep in mind, we can't pick up every one we need in one draft, and we are more then 1 player away from getting to the SB. So lets pick up our "Field General" while we have a high draft pick, pick up several OL in this draft and through FA, and see where we can pick up a LB, NT, and FS. Thats not even mentioning a possible RB. Will CP be cleared to play? Do we want to settle with aged players in Betts and Cartwright? will Ganther, Mason, and Alridge be better in the new blocking sheme? or do we look to FA or draft a young buck for the new scheme?

Plus like you being so tired of hearing about Shanahan getting great production out of mid to late round talent, I'm tired of hearing about all the excuses for JC. Yes the OL sucked. But on almost every play I could count 4-7 seconds he had to do something with the ball, which by the way is about the time most QB's have to get rid of the ball, to only witness JC throw it away or behind the reciever. That's not even counting the times he failed to adjust his protection to the correct side or change the play to a more suitable play. Campbell had 4-7 seconds. Go look. Thats why the WCO designed 3, 5, and 7 step drops then added hitches(forward skip steps) so it kinda helps the QB know when to get rid of the ball with out having to sit back there looking over the field saying "one thousand and one, one thousand and two.... oh crap I'm gunna get hit any second." I literally screamed at the tv saying throw the damn ball. But I think part of the problem was Zorn's scheme. It sucked. Just like many DC said when asked about the Skins offense. I mean look a Bingo caller came in and got better production out of the players we had and against better teams.

I am not sure which game(s) you were watching. I dont recall Jason having 4-7 seconds to get rid of the ball. No one generally has that long to get rid of the ball. So lets be realistic. Jason was one of the most beat up QB's in the NFL. I dont think anyone argues that nor the fact the Oline was god awful. However, he did finish upper half of the league when the season ended, so if you look at it that way then he could be a far more productive QB if given the average amount of time in the pocket.

Now, for drafting a QB with the #4 pick. I just dont think is maximizing the pick. Especially if we are giving Campbell every opportunity to keep his job. What if Jason goes and lights it up (if the line is better) and we get into the playoffs. What now! You have Campbell who did what everyone expected behind a good Oline and now a #4 pick sitting on the bench. Wasted pick. Now, since we will probably offer JC a 1 year tender, now since he is a FA, we get nothing in return because we are not going to invest big money in him, we aren't going to tag him, and now no way to trade him. This of course is saying he has a good year.

2nd - say we draft a QB, and ignore what we should be doing by drafting the best olineman in the draft, he gets the job and now he is getting the crap beat out of him behind the oline. That is no way for a rookie QB to start a career and become productive.

We draft oline at 4 and in the 2nd. See whats available in the later rounds. Take whats there...RB, CB, LB, whatever. We are going to sign a couple of players in FA anyway.

About trading some of the players.. just dont see it. Who is going to trade for Moss, Portis, Randel El, JC??? NO ONE... 1st off Moss and Randel El can't get open if I am covering them. Portis is a 30 year old RB that no one is going to want. LT just got cut and Portis aint no LT. No one is going to offer a 1st and 3rd for JC, and no one is going to trade for him next year because he will be a FA. So we basically waste another 1st round pick and a 3rd to move up to get him.

I just hope this FO has a clue this offseason. I stand behind what ever they do, QB or no QB.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

I am not sure which game(s) you were watching. I dont recall Jason having 4-7 seconds to get rid of the ball. No one generally has that long to get rid of the ball. So lets be realistic. Jason was one of the most beat up QB's in the NFL. I dont think anyone argues that nor the fact the Oline was god awful. However, he did finish upper half of the league when the season ended, so if you look at it that way then he could be a far more productive QB if given the average amount of time in the pocket.

Now, for drafting a QB with the #4 pick. I just dont think is maximizing the pick. Especially if we are giving Campbell every opportunity to keep his job. What if Jason goes and lights it up (if the line is better) and we get into the playoffs. What now! You have Campbell who did what everyone expected behind a good Oline and now a #4 pick sitting on the bench. Wasted pick. Now, since we will probably offer JC a 1 year tender, now since he is a FA, we get nothing in return because we are not going to invest big money in him, we aren't going to tag him, and now no way to trade him. This of course is saying he has a good year.

2nd - say we draft a QB, and ignore what we should be doing by drafting the best olineman in the draft, he gets the job and now he is getting the crap beat out of him behind the oline. That is no way for a rookie QB to start a career and become productive.

We draft oline at 4 and in the 2nd. See whats available in the later rounds. Take whats there...RB, CB, LB, whatever. We are going to sign a couple of players in FA anyway.

About trading some of the players.. just dont see it. Who is going to trade for Moss, Portis, Randel El, JC??? NO ONE... 1st off Moss and Randel El can't get open if I am covering them. Portis is a 30 year old RB that no one is going to want. LT just got cut and Portis aint no LT. No one is going to offer a 1st and 3rd for JC, and no one is going to trade for him next year because he will be a FA. So we basically waste another 1st round pick and a 3rd to move up to get him.

I just hope this FO has a clue this offseason. I stand behind what ever they do, QB or no QB.

Good points some what valid but no different then our political system with the Dems and Repubs, your at the other end of the spectrum.

1) Almost every game I watched he had 4-7 seconds. I can remember around the 8th week close to the break the announcers even mentioned the time JC was being given after the snap and also said they didn't see that he had any less time vs. other QB's. Basically they were giving props to the make shift OL. The big question is ... was he seeing the whole field in reference to open receivers? and were the receivers getting open quick enough? Again it goes back to we never had a legit #1 WR. Plus JC only trusted is fail safes...ie; Moss, ARE, and Cooley.

2) If our intention was to simply draft a QB and screw the pooch on the OL then yes your 100% correct. The poor QB will get all beat up and will not be worth anything. Like Smootsmack said those of you who are against taking a QB with the 4th pick sound like Shanahan is going to have amnesia in regards to the OL and not do anything to shore it up. Do you guys think Shanahan is going to completely ignore the OL? Cerrato would have and did. Everyone felt Buges was god when it came to OL. I loved him to death but after last year I'm glad he's retired. Whether you blame it on the quality of OL or partially the scheme, I'm blaming both. Shanahan knows the OL is an issue. He's not going to come in here and not do something about it especially when he's known for having the best OL in the NFL year in and year out.

3) you mention the team or fans giving JC the opportunity to keep his job. Honestly I think he lost it either 1 or 2 yrs ago. I think DS has moved on and Cerrato did last summer. I'm hedging my bet and saying Zorn also but what HC is going to come out and say the QB sucks and then get stuck with the QB cause a trade was not possible? Zorn had to come out smelling like roses with JC. So he takes JC's side in front of the media but tells DS and Cerrato he needs a better QB. The Skins would be an idiot if they didn't tender JC. Why? simply cause he's a good QB but he's not great. If they plan to get rid of old Collins then name one half young Vet out there that is better then JC? and available. Why take a QB? cause Collins is old and need to go, Brennan has yet to step up due to injuries, So all we have is JC and Brennan. JC is 28 yrs old. I'm not saying he's old but ... he's not young either. QB's playing like Favre until they are 40 is usually not heard of. Most play until 30 or mid 30's. "IF" JC has an awsome year next year then give him the contract he deserves and the Rookie will just have to sit on the bench and wait his turn. We had money tied up in Brunell and paid JC well also so thats not an issue. If JC works out great we have his back up and someone to take over if he gets hurt or retires.

You all act like we should just wait, draft all OL this year, and pick up a Rookie QB next year and throw him to the fire then when you don't want to do it now. I'd rather have drafted a Rookie now and "IF" he's better then JC then start him if not let him get a year under his belt and start him next year already knowing the system and play calls vs. drafting next year with the hope we get a decent QB and can coach him up prior to the season.

4) You talk about the trades.... your right maybe no one wants our players or maybe someone will. We don't know unless we shop them. I'm betting there are teams out there that these guys would be upgrades to what those teams already have. and I'll say it again... Moss and ARE were used in the wrong spots, but when you have lemons you make lemon ade. ARE I felt had his best year last year because he was moved to a position that better suits him. We needed a valid #1 WR to take pressure off Moss and move him to the #2 spot where he would definitly have done better. ARE to the #3 spot helped out last year.

and lastly your right no one would want Portis. I don't even want Portis. I have issues with him... has he been cleared to play yet? will he be allowed to play or forced to retire?, he's old as well as Betts and Rock, his work ethic, then there is his big contract. Who knows what will happen after this year but all we know is if players are to be cut with out being penilized then this is the year prior to any new cap is put into place. This also goes for Samuels and any others.