Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

[firstdown]

I think I have had my history lesson for today.

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by firstdown

I think I have had my history lesson for today.

That my friend is the dag gone truth.

[BleedBurgundy]

Ok, now let's debate the validity of:

All of humanity being descended from two people, one of which was made from the other's rib. These two people lived in a wonderful garden, but were tricked into eating mystical fruit by a tricky reptile.

Magic sea creatures that swallow people without digesting them and then spit them out on the beach.

"Angels" committing genocide by murdering the first born sons of a given ethnic group.

The surface tension of water and the associated application to mideastern carpenters.

Ghosts. No really, f'ing ghosts.

Demons, Devils and the like...

Religion is not for the rational mind.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

Ok, now let's debate the validity of:

All of humanity being descended from two people, one of which was made from the other's rib. These two people lived in a wonderful garden, but were tricked into eating mystical fruit by a tricky reptile.

Magic sea creatures that swallow people without digesting them and then spit them out on the beach.

"Angels" committing genocide by murdering the first born sons of a given ethnic group.

The surface tension of water and the associated application to mideastern carpenters.

Ghosts. No really, f'ing ghosts.

Demons, Devils and the like...

Religion is not for the rational mind.

Ever heard of symbolism and poetry - myth and legend? Perhaps these are tools to gaining a deeper understanding of that which drives the universe (if anything does).

With that said, ultimately, you believe in a universe that can be explained through finite means and that we, as humans, could fully discover if given enough time. If that is the leap of faith you wish to make - so be it.

Mine is that there is a truth beyond human understanding which we, as finite beings, can and should work to glimpse but, as finite beings (individually and corporately), can only discover through grace.

Oops. Guess I am not being rational. Silly religious me.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Ever heard of symbolism and poetry - myth and legend? Perhaps these are tools to gaining a deeper understanding of that which drives the universe (if anything does).

With that said, ultimately, you believe in a universe that can be explained through finite means and that we, as humans, could fully discover if given enough time. If that is the leap of faith you wish to make - so be it.

Mine is that there is a truth beyond human understanding which we, as finite beings, can and should work to glimpse but, as finite beings (individually and corporately), can only discover through grace.

Oops. Guess I am not being rational. Silly religious me.

I think there's a balance between religion and logic that no one seems to be able to find. Ironically, I think that as human brains developed (evolution), they began to try to make sense of their surrounding, and this is where religion may have begun (just my assumption, no one bite my head off).

I do have a problem with the mixing of state and religion. This country has not suffered through the centuries of warfare (in our own soil) due to religion, and I think this is why people easily dismiss the problems with religion dictating policy.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I think there's a balance between religion and logic that no one seems to be able to find. Ironically, I think that as human brains developed (evolution), they began to try to make sense of their surrounding, and this is where religion may have begun (just my assumption, no one bite my head off).

I do have a problem with the mixing of state and religion. This country has not suffered through the centuries of warfare (in our own soil) due to religion, and I think this is why people easily dismiss the problems with religion dictating policy.

As to mixing religion and logic - Some religious individuals ignore the logical paradoxes created by a belief in God and some secularists say the paradoxes are prove of religion's illogic. On the other hand, many rational people see the paradoxes as posing and encapsulating questions which cannot be answered through simple finite logic. I also agree that the drive behind religion is trying to make sense of our surroundings and things we don't understand. As I have said before, at their best, both religion and science strive to find the truth.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

With that said, ultimately, you believe in a universe that can be explained through finite means and that we, as humans, could fully discover if given enough time. If that is the leap of faith you wish to make - so be it.

If you're referring to science then I'm not sure why you mention finite means.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

With that said, ultimately, you believe in a universe that can be explained through finite means and that we, as humans, could fully discover if given enough time. If that is the leap of faith you wish to make - so be it.

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

If you're referring to science then I'm not sure why you mention finite means.

Because we are finite beings and, as such, try as we might, we cannot fully comprehend the infinite. We have some concepts of infinity but they must be reduced to equations that can be understood by our individual or collective (and finite) brains. For example, we can define the constant ratio of a circle's circumference divided by its diameter as Pi, but, to date, we cannot calculate its exact value. Thus, in science, we inadequately use the finite term "Pi" and its equation to inadequately describe the infinite term that is 3.14159.....

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Because we are finite beings and, as such, try as we might, we cannot fully comprehend the infinite. We have some concepts of infinity but they must be reduced to equations that can be understood by our individual or collective (and finite) brains. For example, we can define the constant ratio of a circle's circumference divided by its diameter as Pi, but, to date, we cannot calculate its exact value. Thus, in science, we inadequately use the finite term "Pi" and its equation to inadequately describe the infinite term that is 3.14159.....

Speak for yourself. My next gig is going to be designing shrubbery. I can't wait to get off this prison planet.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Because we are finite beings and, as such, try as we might, we cannot fully comprehend the infinite. We have some concepts of infinity but they must be reduced to equations that can be understood by our individual or collective (and finite) brains. For example, we can define the constant ratio of a circle's circumference divided by its diameter as Pi, but, to date, we cannot calculate its exact value. Thus, in science, we inadequately use the finite term "Pi" and its equation to inadequately describe the infinite term that is 3.14159.....

Speaking of the infinite the Mandelbrot Set is amazing.

[SmootSmack]

Let's try to keep things civil here and refrain from personal attacks. Threads the last few days have gotten pretty heated and personal.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Let's try to keep things civil here and refrain from personal attacks. Threads the last few days have gotten pretty heated and personal.

Just wanted to second this.

Not sure what's up recently, but yeah people are getting a little out of hand. Let's tone it down.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Let's try to keep things civil here and refrain from personal attacks. Threads the last few days have gotten pretty heated and personal.

If this was aimed at me or if I my words furthered this. I apologize.

JoeT - Specifically, I apologize for the "stupid, ignorant, dumb, mindless, uneducated assertion" comment. Well, except for the "uneducated" part b/c you were, in fact, wrong about your assertion.

Again, sorry to all.

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

If this was aimed at me or if I my words furthered this. I apologize.

JoeT - Specifically, I apologize for the "stupid, ignorant, dumb, mindless, uneducated assertion" comment. Well, except for the "uneducated" part b/c you were, in fact, wrong about your assertion.

Again, sorry to all.

Which assertion about the Battle of Hastings?

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan

Which assertion about the Battle of Hastings?

Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan

Did the Roman Empire fall before or after 1066? That my friend is when Christianity was forced upon the British by descendants of Vikings living in modern day France off the WWII famous coast of Normandy.

That one. It is simply and unequivocally wrong with no basis in historical fact. Christianity in Britain was established by the Romans during their occupation of the British Isles and preserved through monastic life after their withdrawal. The Saxons, who were defeated at Hasting by "descendants of Vikings living in modern day France" most assuredly did not have Christianity "forced upon them" as they were already Christians.

You used this blatantly wrong assertion to counter my argument that christianity played a large role in saving ancient knowledge after the fall of the Western Roman Empire which I, in turn, had made to counter the "All Christians are idiots b/c some Christians are idiots" arguments that seemed to be pervading the thread.

Thus, after some had seemingly asserted Christians are ignorant and uneducated, you made an ignorant and uneducated statement to refute my assertion that not all Christians are ignorant and uneducated.