Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Yeah the Thomas Jefferson point was especially troubling. The separation between church and state is one of the things that separates us from fallen empires (Rome, etc.) of yesteryear.

Maybe this is a result of your school's textbook, but do you realize that Separation of Church and State does not exist in law or founding documents? Jefferson ONLY mentioned it in private correspondence.

It's a giant misconception.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Buster

Maybe this is a result of your school's textbook, but do you realize that Separation of Church and State does not exist in law or founding documents? Jefferson ONLY mentioned it in private correspondence.

It's a giant misconception.

Well I'd counter that the bill of rights, through the right to worship freely, pretty much sets the stage for the separation of church and state. I mean think about it, if the citizens are free to worship whoever and whatever they want, how can you legislate based on one set of beliefs vs another?

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Well I'd counter that the bill of rights, through the right to worship freely, pretty much sets the stage for the separation of church and state. I mean think about it, if the citizens are free to worship whoever and whatever they want, how can you legislate based on one set of beliefs vs another?

Yes. While the phrase, "separation of church and state," does not exist in founding documents, this is clearly what the Bill of Rights had in mind when it said that government will neither establish nor prohibit the establishment of religion.

The idea that the founding fathers were strict Christians is bunk. The words "God" or "Jesus" do not appear in the Constitution, as they would if the founding fathers had considered us to be a Christian country. Further, the first treaty entered into by the United States, the Treaty of Tripoli of 1796, expressly claims that the US government is not based on religion.

Excising Jefferson as an intellectual influence but touting the influence of Aquinas and Calvin is deplorable.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Excising Jefferson as an intellectual influence but touting the influence of Aquinas and Calvin is deplorable.

Exactly, I was going to comment on this as well.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Yes. While the phrase, "separation of church and state," does not exist in founding documents, this is clearly what the Bill of Rights had in mind when it said that government will neither establish nor prohibit the establishment of religion.

The idea that the founding fathers were strict Christians is bunk. The words "God" or "Jesus" do not appear in the Constitution, as they would if the founding fathers had considered us to be a Christian country. Further, the first treaty entered into by the United States, the Treaty of Tripoli of 1796, expressly claims that the US government is not based on religion.

Excising Jefferson as an intellectual influence but touting the influence of Aquinas and Calvin is deplorable.

Let's not forget why a lot of people left Europe for the Americas....to get away from the Catholic Church and the Church of England, and whatever other bloody church there was.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by saden1

Let's not forget why a lot of people left Europe for the Americas....to get away from the Catholic Church and the Church of England, and whatever other bloody church there was.

yeah, government controlled churches

hell a lot of those people would've LOVED the churches controlling the government though

either way, what some people jumped on some boats for shouldn't control what I do now

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

yeah, government controlled churches

hell a lot of those people would've LOVED the churches controlling the government though

either way, what some people jumped on some boats for shouldn't control what I do now

Is there any country I can go to to escape religion completely? (I know, china, I know) My biggest beef with US is how much control these small minded religious fools have over the government. Legislation based on fairy tales, you gotta love it.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

Is there any country I can go to to escape religion completely? (I know, china, I know) My biggest beef with US is how much control these small minded religious fools have over the government. Legislation based on fairy tales, you gotta love it.

the scandinavian nations are among the world's least religious

[saden1]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

yeah, government controlled churches

hell a lot of those people would've LOVED the churches controlling the government though

either way, what some people jumped on some boats for shouldn't control what I do now

I believe the real reason why TJ was dropped was because he wrote his own version of the Bible and had a copy the Qur'an. One has to wonder if he was a secret Muslim? Did anyone ever see his birth certificate?

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by saden1

I believe the real reason why TJ was dropped was because he wrote his own version of the Bible and had a copy the Qur'an. One has to wonder if he was a secret Muslim? Did anyone ever see his birth certificate?

I believe he was born in Hawaii but we had better check it out.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Well I'd counter that the bill of rights, through the right to worship freely, pretty much sets the stage for the separation of church and state. I mean think about it, if the citizens are free to worship whoever and whatever they want, how can you legislate based on one set of beliefs vs another?

This was to protect the churches FROM the Government more than to keep religion out of Government. Look at the times it was written and the Church of England being controlled by the Government and forced upon the citizenry.

The Founders were primarily Christians and there are citations of God all throughout written laws, on Government buildings and on currency. They never had any intention to separate Church from State, only to keep the "State" our of churches and let people worship as they choose to or not at all. They didn't say that beliefs had to be censored or hidden at all. They had their very public beliefs BUT the also did not want to prevent others from having and displaying theirs even if different.

The whole concept has been twisted in attempts to silence religious practices completely. The Founders intended on Freedom OF Religion, not Freedom FROM Religion as many push today.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by Buster

This was to protect the churches FROM the Government more than to keep religion out of Government. Look at the times it was written and the Church of England being controlled by the Government and forced upon the citizenry.

The Founders were primarily Christians and there are citations of God all throughout written laws, on Government buildings and on currency. They never had any intention to separate Church from State, only to keep the "State" our of churches and let people worship as they choose to or not at all. They didn't say that beliefs had to be censored or hidden at all. They had their very public beliefs BUT the also did not want to prevent others from having and displaying theirs even if different.

The whole concept has been twisted in attempts to silence religious practices completely. The Founders intended on Freedom OF Religion, not Freedom FROM Religion as many push today.

do you think that freedom from religion is important?

I do

man I've met a lot of home schooled kids and it freaks me out how little they actually know about things.. history, the real world, etc

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

do you think that freedom from religion is important?

I do

man I've met a lot of home schooled kids and it freaks me out how little they actually know about things.. history, the real world, etc

Completely agree. This story is so pathetic, it's beyond justification.

Top US home-school texts dismiss evolution | Raw Story

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

Completely agree. This story is so pathetic, it's beyond justification.

Top US home-school texts dismiss evolution | Raw Story

haha yeah.. it's crazy

knew plenty of girls that went to Christian Academies as well.. the slanting of their learning is beyond amazing

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

Completely agree. This story is so pathetic, it's beyond justification.

Top US home-school texts dismiss evolution | Raw Story

Sometimes I get them in classes. They are always the ones going, "What? I've never heard that!" to even the most elementary bits of solid knowledge.