Obama Care

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

No, I got your points. I'm not geared to think that way. I don't trust anyone and expect everyone to take advantage of me. To put my faith in good intentions or trust is asking to be taken advantage of.

You missed my points. When you ask the government to come to the rescue, don't be surprised when they never go home. They'll eat out of your refrigerator, eye-ball your wife, and drink up your good yak; all for your own good of course.

Ha! You're never outnumbered if you have an AK. You just don't understand how cheap 7.62 is. Check out Cheaper Than Dirt online. You'll see.

It is difficult to be more mistrusting of the government than I am. I am fiercely independent politically because I trust no politicians and the higher up the ladder they are, the less I will trust them. I am not arguing to trust the government.

But the point is we are already required by law to financially support government programs. And in an emergency you will take advantage of this situation. My tax money enables you to do so. Given this, if I say that I will pay for your fire protection, but won't pay for your health protection, I am drawing an utterly arbitrary line.

Let me put this differently: you already argued that you would help others in need, such as Over the Mountain. National health care will simply normalize this situation so that those in need will get the help. It is actually not much different from what you have argued in terms of people in a community sticking together.

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by Lotus

It is difficult to be more mistrusting of the government than I am. I am fiercely independent politically because I trust no politicians and the higher up the ladder they are, the less I will trust them. I am not arguing to trust the government.

But the point is we are already required by law to financially support government programs. And in an emergency you will take advantage of this situation. My tax money enables you to do so. Given this, if I say that I will pay for your fire protection, but won't pay for your health protection, I am drawing an utterly arbitrary line.

Let me put this differently: you already argued that you would help others in need, such as Over the Mountain. National health care will simply normalize this situation so that those in need will get the help. It is actually not much different from what you have argued in terms of people in a community sticking together.

You can't have it both ways! You sound like a Neo-con talking about Jesus and then dropping bombs on people without a declaration of war. You can't sit here and tell me the government is corrupt and you don't trust them, except for this issue. It doesn't work that way. I pay the police and fire dept with my local taxes. I have a say in who the chiefs are. I can go to the county supervisor and have them removed. They are held accountable for their actions.

In the end it doesn't matter. My governor and state legislature has told Obama and Congress to eat a dick. I'm not paying. When that BS bill gets passed, we're filling a lawsuit on the twisted sisters in Washington. End of discussion.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Lotus

But the point is we are already required by law to financially support government programs. And in an emergency you will take advantage of this situation. My tax money enables you to do so. Given this, if I say that I will pay for your fire protection, but won't pay for your health protection, I am drawing an utterly arbitrary line.

Police and Fire are locally funded (State/county/city etc.) as they should be, not by the fed. Many states/localities have balanced budget requirements. You can also move to a different state if the taxes are too high or the services aren't what you want. Much harder to move out of the country.

And if theives break into a home, the police won't do anything but file a report (which is needed for insurance also), they won't stop the intruder.

Most conservatives understand our system needs some fixes, which have been proposed, not to be taken over and administered by the Fed. As firstdown said, this isn't about healthcare, it's a powerplay by the Dems to make people more dependent on gov't, further entrench themselves in office, and further into our wallets. It's being rammed through now because in Nov. 2010 it won't be possible to get it through.

Over the mountain, I feel very bad for your situation, here's some links that may provide useful info. One is from NIH, they were very helpful for my father when he was I'll with a brain tumor. At that time, my family was in a similar situation financially, not poor enough for gov't programs but didn't have enough to pay for health insurance.

Financial Assistance: MedlinePlus

http://www.nachc.com/

Health Insurance - Buy Medical Insurance Plans Online, Affordable Health Insurance Quotes

RxAssist - Patient Assistance Programs

Good luck and God Bless.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Police and Fire are locally funded (State/county/city etc.) as they should be, not by the fed. Many states/localities have balanced budget requirements. You can also move to a different state if the taxes are too high or the services aren't what you want. Much harder to move out of the country.

And if theives break into a home, the police won't do anything but file a report (which is needed for insurance also), they won't stop the intruder.

Most conservatives understand our system needs some fixes, which have been proposed, not to be taken over and administered by the Fed. As firstdown said, this isn't about healthcare, it's a powerplay by the Dems to make people more dependent on gov't, further entrench themselves in office, and further into our wallets. It's being rammed through now because in Nov. 2010 it won't be possible to get it through.

Over the mountain, I feel very bad for your situation, here's some links that may provide useful info. One is from NIH, they were very helpful for my father when he was I'll with a brain tumor. At that time, my family was in a similar situation financially, not poor enough for gov't programs but didn't have enough to pay for health insurance.

Financial Assistance: MedlinePlus

http://www.nachc.com/

Health Insurance - Buy Medical Insurance Plans Online, Affordable Health Insurance Quotes

RxAssist - Patient Assistance Programs

Good luck and God Bless.

I am fiercely independent politically and count myself as neither Republican nor Democrat. But this is all about health care. Health care needs to be completely overhauled regardless of which party is pushing it. Stories like Over the Mountain's should not exist in the greatest country on earth and do not exist in some other places. It is just this simple. If the Republicans were trying to power play health care reform on the Democrats, I'd still be all for it.