Big Ben off the hook again.

[Monkeydad]

He's meeting with Goodell today and if he doesn't get a minimum 4, preferablly 6 or 8-game suspension, the league and its personal conduct policies are a joke. Other players have been suspended for lesser offenses that were also not prosecuted.

Even if he's right and she REALLY DID just fall down in that 5-foot by 5-foot bathroom that he followed he into and had buddies guard the door...don't you think she'd bruise an elbow or knee...not her vagina? Regardless of the matter of consent, she was drunk and under the drinking age in most states...he had no reason to behave the way he did. He is supposed to be a professional and that doesn't only apply for 3 hours every Sunday. He's brought horrible press upon the league and especially the Steelers. I doubt he'll even recognize that trading Holmes was a message to him. This wasn't his first or even second chance to act like a civilized human being and professional representative of his team...he has a long track record of bad judgment if not more.

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by Buster

He's meeting with Goodell today and if he doesn't get a minimum 4, preferablly 6 or 8-game suspension, the league and its personal conduct policies are a joke. Other players have been suspended for lesser offenses that were also not prosecuted.

Even if he's right and she REALLY DID just fall down in that 5-foot by 5-foot bathroom that he followed he into and had buddies guard the door...don't you think she'd bruise an elbow or knee...not her vagina? Regardless of the matter of consent, she was drunk and under the drinking age in most states...he had no reason to behave the way he did. He is supposed to be a professional and that doesn't only apply for 3 hours every Sunday. He's brought horrible press upon the league and especially the Steelers. I doubt he'll even recognize that trading Holmes was a message to him. This wasn't his first or even second chance to act like a civilized human being and professional representative of his team...he has a long track record of bad judgment if not more.

Honestly it isn't our job or Goodell's job to decide why the girl had a bruise on her vagina. While I have seen a vagina or two in my day, I would never speculate on a subject like this.

Based on how Goodell has dealt with other players, I think he has to suspend Ben but, personally, I think this suspending players when they haven't been convicted of anything is a slippery slope.

I see a player suing the league in the near future over one of these suspensions because it seems that Goodell's process is very arbitrary. Who is policing Goodell? What is his criteria? What gives Goodell the right to decide that people who have been convicted of no crime cannot work?

Certainly, to date, it seems like black players are being treated differently than the white players.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by Pocket$ $traight

Honestly it isn't our job or Goodell's job to decide why the girl had a bruise on her vagina. While I have seen a vagina or two in my day, I would never speculate on a subject like this.

Based on how Goodell has dealt with other players, I think he has to suspend Ben but, personally, I think this suspending players when they haven't been convicted of anything is a slippery slope.

I see a player suing the league in the near future over one of these suspensions because it seems that Goodell's process is very arbitrary. Who is policing Goodell? What is his criteria? What gives Goodell the right to decide that people who have been convicted of no crime cannot work?

Certainly, to date, it seems like black players are being treated differently than the white players.

You're could be right to an extent, but there is also the fact that can't be denied that there have been less "issues" with the law among white players, just looking at an incident per capita-type figure. I'm not making any judgements, just throwing out a stat. We can't condemn the Commissioner just because there were fewer incidents to deal with when applying a certain criteria like race. However, if that perception exists, here's his opportunity to squash it.

With that said, Goodell doesn't need to get into any of the dirty details of Ben's incidents. His maturity level, personal conduct and bad image he's creating for the league and his team is enough to hand out a punishment with the intentions of putting a stop to these behaviors before they go to far legally and otherwise.

Chris Henry and Pacman Jones were suspended when not convicted. Roethlisberger is starting to get a track record of repeat offender just as they are. As the QB, the most prominent position on the team, he needs to be held to a higher standard just due to his public visibility. He needs to realize this and if necessary, taught the lesson.

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by Buster

You're could be right to an extent, but there is also the fact that can't be denied that there have been less "issues" with the law among white players, just looking at an incident per capita-type figure. I'm not making any judgements, just throwing out a stat. We can't condemn the Commissioner just because there were fewer incidents to deal with when applying a certain criteria like race. However, if that perception exists, here's his opportunity to squash it.

With that said, Goodell doesn't need to get into any of the dirty details of Ben's incidents. His maturity level, personal conduct and bad image he's creating for the league and his team is enough to hand out a punishment with the intentions of putting a stop to these behaviors before they go to far legally and otherwise.

Chris Henry and Pacman Jones were suspended when not convicted. Roethlisberger is starting to get a track record of repeat offender just as they are. As the QB, the most prominent position on the team, he needs to be held to a higher standard just due to his public visibility. He needs to realize this and if necessary, taught the lesson.

See this is where I think Goodell is on questionable ground. You are calling Big Ben a repeat offender but he hasn't been arrested for either case. Suspending players for bad press? That sounds like a softball for an attorney if you ask me. I think there is a big difference when someone is arrested over and over again and not convicted as opposed to just being accused.

I think it is a very bad precedent to suspend players on accusations alone. I know this last case smells but what is next, you suspend players for staring too long at the cheerleaders?

[tootergray34]

Originally Posted by Pocket$ $traight

[/B]

See this is where I think Goodell is on questionable ground. You are calling Big Ben a repeat offender but he hasn't been arrested for either case. Suspending players for bad press? That sounds like a softball for an attorney if you ask me. I think there is a big difference when someone is arrested over and over again and not convicted as opposed to just being accused.

I think it is a very bad precedent to suspend players on accusations alone. I know this last case smells but what is next, you suspend players for staring too long at the cheerleaders?

Yeah, cause the commish isn't a moron, he knows Big Ben is an idiot and stupid as a box of rocks. Everybody knows Big Ben has done something wrong here, and the commish wants to and SHOULD make an example out of him, who knows, maybe it will get a 27 year old man out of COLLEGE bars in the middle of Georgia. But i'm waiting for a million more of these things to happen to Big Ben then have him admit he has a sex addiction...just like Tiger...

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by Pocket$ $traight

[/B]

See this is where I think Goodell is on questionable ground. You are calling Big Ben a repeat offender but he hasn't been arrested for either case. Suspending players for bad press? That sounds like a softball for an attorney if you ask me. I think there is a big difference when someone is arrested over and over again and not convicted as opposed to just being accused.

I think it is a very bad precedent to suspend players on accusations alone. I know this last case smells but what is next, you suspend players for staring too long at the cheerleaders?

It's not based on accusations, it's based on facts.

Facts such as:

*He's repeatedly using bad judgment, from the motorcycle to these multiple sexual assault claims. Bad personal conduct means bad press for the team, the league and all athletes who will be stereotyped because of the actions of a prominent player.

*He's voluntarily putting himself in these situations and in with these crowds. He's choosing to be put in compromising situations.

*This is not the first time he's been involved in a situation like this, whether pursued legally or not. The "wrong place, wrong time" defense only works once. After that, it becomes a pattern of behavior. His two accusations/incidents were not too far apart, time-wise either. It doesn't appear he's learned from his previous mess, or even his motorcycle accident. Sure, it was an "accident", but he doesn't seem to value his career or realize he's an asset of the team that needs to be protected.

*Other players have been punished for far less-severe situations. Just because law enforcement or the legal system doesn't spell out a decision, that doesn't mean no crime was committed. In this case, there was apparently "not enough evidence to prosecute and win a case" according to the DA. We really don't have to bring up OJ or Kobe Bryant, do we? Although there was not enough evidence to go forward with a case, there WAS a lot of evidence that Ben acted without any common sense, possibly morals and many of the facts that were present (age, condition of victim, the location of her bruises with a "oh she just fell down and bruised her vagina" explanation from him. The facts that were there point to something very bad for Roethlisberger, they just claimed they couldn't find enough of these.

I do realize there are false accusations and the Duke debacle should have taught us all a lesson...but when someone is repeatedly finding themselves put into defending themselves against the same accusation, perhaps the individual needs to evaluate their life and decisions they're making. A suspension might push Ben to do this whether he's guilty or not. No matter what the legal outcome was, he is hurting the team and league with his decisions and lack of caring (or common sense).


It may not even take a decision by Goodell to give him some time off. The Rooneys and Steelers are considering doing it themselves and after trading Holmes for equally-stupid but less severe offenses...they're serious.

Steelers ponder suspension of Roethlisberger


It seems like they're preparing for the worst-case scenario and not having Roethlisberger permanently...they just re-signed the ancient Charlie Batch for 2 more years.

Steelers' Batch accepts two-year deal

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by Buster

It's not based on accusations, it's based on facts.

Facts such as:

*He's repeatedly using bad judgment, from the motorcycle to these multiple sexual assault claims. Bad personal conduct means bad press for the team, the league and all athletes who will be stereotyped because of the actions of a prominent player.

*He's voluntarily putting himself in these situations and in with these crowds. He's choosing to be put in compromising situations.

*This is not the first time he's been involved in a situation like this, whether pursued legally or not. The "wrong place, wrong time" defense only works once. After that, it becomes a pattern of behavior. His two accusations/incidents were not too far apart, time-wise either. It doesn't appear he's learned from his previous mess, or even his motorcycle accident. Sure, it was an "accident", but he doesn't seem to value his career or realize he's an asset of the team that needs to be protected.

*Other players have been punished for far less-severe situations. Just because law enforcement or the legal system doesn't spell out a decision, that doesn't mean no crime was committed. In this case, there was apparently "not enough evidence to prosecute and win a case" according to the DA. We really don't have to bring up OJ or Kobe Bryant, do we?


It may not even take a decision by Goodell to give him some time off. The Rooneys and Steelers are considering doing it themselves and after trading Holmes for equally-stupid but less severe offenses...they're serious.

Steelers ponder suspension of Roethlisberger


It seems like they're preparing for the worst-case scenario and not having Roethlisberger permanently...they just re-signed the ancient Charlie Batch for 2 more years.

Steelers' Batch accepts two-year deal

I don't know how riding a motorcycle warrants a suspension. The woman out west has no credibility.

This situation is bad but my point is that Goodell is looking for legal trouble if he starts suspending people because they are accused of things. Especially when the accusers are not willing to pursue the matter past the accusation.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by Pocket$ $traight

I don't know how riding a motorcycle warrants a suspension. The woman out west has no credibility.

This situation is bad but my point is that Goodell is looking for legal trouble if he starts suspending people because they are accused of things. Especially when the accusers are not willing to pursue the matter past the accusation.

a. No one said riding a motorcycle warrants a suspension. Wrecking one with NO HELMET, whether the Governor OK'd it or not with a controversial law. It goes back to "protecting the team's investment" and personal responsibility. That was his first of many boneheaded decisions, I wouldn't expect that alone to get him suspended, but when discussing his overall track record or irresponsibility, it's included.

b. She may have no credibility but after how many women can we continue to side with him? This second case had a lot more evidence pointing to it possibly happening. After a first false accusation (if it was), why wasn't he a little more careful where he went and who he associated with? Back to needing to be taught how to conduct himself as a professional.

Goodell will not face any legal issues if he suspends anyone for anything. It's a private business that can control its employees any way it deems necessary, just as any other company. He may face Union pushback, but legally, other than possibly violating contracts if it was really pursued, he wouldn't have to worry about anything. If you conduct yourself in a horrible way that makes your company look bad, you'd probably just be fired outright. Ben would be lucky just to get a month off compared to the rest of us.