Campbell A Raider

[irish]

Originally Posted by Buster

Not really, when I think of Redskins busts, Heath Shuler...ARGH.

He's still a gigantic upgrade over their own bust QB.

Sure HS was a bust but the Skins didnt give away a bunch of picks to get him. To me its all those picks that they gave away is what puts the bust label on JC. Not only did JC not pan out they didnt get ant benefit from the 3 picks they gave away to get him. That's a 4 player loss and a pretty big hit.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by irish

Sure HS was a bust but the Skins didnt give away a bunch of picks to get him. To me its all those picks that they gave away is what puts the bust label on JC. Not only did JC not pan out they didnt get ant benefit from the 3 picks they gave away to get him. That's a 4 player loss and a pretty big hit.

So, are you arguing that if, for the sake of argument, we had picked JC at #25 without giving up extra picks, he would not be a bust?

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by Lotus

So, are you arguing that if, for the sake of argument, we had picked JC at #25 without giving up extra picks, he would not be a bust?

he's closer to what you'd call a draft bust than an actual bust

it wasn't his fault that we gave up all of that for him

[MTK]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

he's closer to what you'd call a draft bust than an actual bust

it wasn't his fault that we gave up all of that for him

Ok I can buy that he's a "draft bust" in regard to what was given up for him, but a bust in the traditional sense of the word in regard to his on field performance, no.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

he's closer to what you'd call a draft bust than an actual bust

it wasn't his fault that we gave up all of that for him

That's the difference that I was trying to tease out.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by Lotus

That's the difference that I was trying to tease out.

Yeah, mine was just kind of a continuance of your post.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Lotus

So, are you arguing that if, for the sake of argument, we had picked JC at #25 without giving up extra picks, he would not be a bust?

Pretty much yes. I think I'd call him more of a big disappointment if he was drafted 25th. Its the loss of those picks thats the real kicker. JC ended up being a marginal QB (who might not even start in Oak) who the Skins end up thrwing away for a 4th round pick.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Lotus

So, are you arguing that if, for the sake of argument, we had picked JC at #25 without giving up extra picks, he would not be a bust?

Originally Posted by irish

Pretty much yes. I think I'd call him more of a big disappointment if he was drafted 25th. Its the loss of those picks thats the real kicker. JC ended up being a marginal QB (who might not even start in Oak) who the Skins end up thrwing away for a 4th round pick.

Then, logically, JC is not a bust to you. The trade up for him is what you are criticizing, not JC himself.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Then, logically, JC is not a bust to you. The trade up for him is what you are criticizing, not JC himself.

Its the whole thing, the trade up, JC's play. Put that all together and the final result is bust.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by irish

Its the whole thing, the trade up, JC's play. Put that all together and the final result is bust.

You are not being logical. You can't say "the whole thing" because whether JC busted his pick, or whether we should have traded up for him, are two separate issues, as your own posts have highlighted.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Lotus

You are not being logical. You can't say "the whole thing" because whether JC busted his pick, or whether we should have traded up for him, are two separate issues, as your own posts have highlighted.

I know they are 2 seperate things. Should they have traded up - no. Did JC bust his pick - yes. When you look at the whole saga of JC with the Skins (trade up, his play, toss him out) the final result is bust.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by irish

Sure HS was a bust but the Skins didnt give away a bunch of picks to get him. To me its all those picks that they gave away is what puts the bust label on JC. Not only did JC not pan out they didnt get ant benefit from the 3 picks they gave away to get him. That's a 4 player loss and a pretty big hit.

Did we even need to trade up to get him. I also question if we offered up more then what we need to offer to move up in the draft. It's not like this would be a first for us to give up too much to get a deal done.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by irish

Sure HS was a bust but the Skins didnt give away a bunch of picks to get him. To me its all those picks that they gave away is what puts the bust label on JC. Not only did JC not pan out they didnt get ant benefit from the 3 picks they gave away to get him. That's a 4 player loss and a pretty big hit.

One of the picks was our 1st rounder in 06 for their 1st rounder in 05, that's a swap, not a loss of a pick. I thought we gave up a 3rd & 4th after that. If so, that would be a net of 2 picks, not 4.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

One of the picks was our 1st rounder in 06 for their 1st rounder in 05, that's a swap, not a loss of a pick. I thought we gave up a 3rd & 4th after that. If so, that would be a net of 2 picks, not 4.

And considering we're getting a 4th in 2012, net of 1 pick

[irish]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

And considering we're getting a 4th in 2012, net of 1 pick

I think the Skins were lucky to get anything for him so that 4th pick helps.