Arizona's New Immigration Law

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

So you're in favor of opening people up to legal abuse and discrimination? You would really want to open that can of worms?

I really don't care how someone gets here, they should be allowed the same basic protections that everyone else has.

Yes. Basically your saying that some one who does not live here, has no ties to this country, has not vested in this government, should be able to step off a plane, step onto a beach, cross a boarder, or step off a boat and instantly they are given the same rights as you whom I presume are a citizen?

I'm not picking on one culture. I'm talking Russian, Chineese, African, Scottish, Irish, Canadian. I refering to all illegal immigrants. On a side note how would you feel having 15 to 20 people crossing a river onto your property every night (trespassing)? Maybe stealing your property occassionally? Maybe peeking into your house at night? Maybe stealing a chicken here and there to cook for food? maybe simply just causing your dog to bark between the hours of 1am and 5am waking you up every other night.

Thats not even speaking of the strain illegals are putting on hospitals. They don't have jobs or insurance so the hospitals treat them then have to right off the cost. Gues who pays that? we all do cause the Gov. reimburses the hospital for their cost.

How about when illegals for whatever reason are allowed to have loans for houses and when they can't pay they simply forclose and move on to the next home using a different name? Our banks are hurting due to this issue also. I can tell you I had 3-4 homes in this situation in my neighborhood.

These are just a few issues. There are a whole mess more. What happens the illegals when they become old and need more attention? ie; put in a nursing home, food stamps, retirment? Where will their retirement come from? They are not putting into social security cause they don't have a social security number or green card number.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Yes. Basically your saying that some one who does not live here, has no ties to this country, has not vested in this government, should be able to step off a plane, step onto a beach, cross a boarder, or step off a boat and instantly they are given the same rights as you whom I presume are a citizen?

I'm not picking on one culture. I'm talking Russian, Chineese, African, Scottish, Irish, Canadian. I refering to all illegal immigrants. On a side note how would you feel having 15 to 20 people crossing a river onto your property every night (trespassing)? Maybe stealing your property occassionally? Maybe peeking into your house at night? Maybe stealing a chicken here and there to cook for food? maybe simply just causing your dog to bark between the hours of 1am and 5am waking you up every other night.

Thats not even speaking of the strain illegals are putting on hospitals. They don't have jobs or insurance so the hospitals treat them then have to right off the cost. Gues who pays that? we all do cause the Gov. reimburses the hospital for their cost.

How about when illegals for whatever reason are allowed to have loans for houses and when they can't pay they simply forclose and move on to the next home using a different name? Our banks are hurting due to this issue also. I can tell you I had 3-4 homes in this situation in my neighborhood.

These are just a few issues. There are a whole mess more. What happens the illegals when they become old and need more attention? ie; put in a nursing home, food stamps, retirment? Where will their retirement come from? They are not putting into social security cause they don't have a social security number or green card number.

I'm talking about universal rights protecting them against abuse and discrimination. So again, you're in favor of legal abuse and discrimination?

With the amount of illegals already here, hope you would be ready for a little 'ol social unrest, to put it lightly.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I'm talking about universal rights protecting them against abuse and discrimination. So again, you're in favor of legal abuse and discrimination?

With the amount of illegals already here, hope you would be ready for a little 'ol social unrest, to put it lightly.

Abuse? ok that falls under human rights. You can't mistreat them. No physical abuse and no starving.

Discrimination? Harder one to answer. but as long as the gov. treats all illegals the same then there should be no issue.

Again, I agree with the fact that American Latino's would be harrassed and probably bullied. I guess what I'm saying is I could see just like the seat belt laws of virginia, it's not a primary offense its a secondary offense. The police can't pull someone over for not wearing their seatbelt, but if they are breaking another law and get stopped then the police can ticket them for not having their seatbelt on.

I don't agree with the police walking around checking paper on everyone they decide to check, but if the police should happen to pull a car over and while asking for identification they learn the individual is illegal then they should be arrested and shipped back to their country.

[2BIG2BSKINNY]

Hey I know that this issue has very many views and it affects different people different ways... My brother and I are Musicians and have made a song about this issue (not playful) and would like for you all to listen to it.

"Keep Us Down (produced by KB)" by BIGGADENLYPHE (Bigger Than Life)

Tell me what you think... I trust that my fellow skins fans can handle things like adults!

Thanks in advance for taking the time to listen to the tracks.

You can listen to more of our music at
ReverbNation

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by 2BIG2BSKINNY

Hey I know that this issue has very many views and it affects different people different ways... My brother and I are Musicians and have made a song about this issue (not playful) and would like for you all to listen to it.

"Keep Us Down (produced by KB)" by BIGGADENLYPHE (Bigger Than Life)

Tell me what you think... I trust that my fellow skins fans can handle things like adults!

Thanks in advance for taking the time to listen to the tracks.

You can listen to more of our music at
ReverbNation

Not a bad track.

I disagree with a lot of the premises and statements though. I really wish everyone would read the law before commenting on it. I posted the text of the law in Post # 26. This law is about enforcing existing laws on the books and shutting down sanctuary cities, not racial profiling.

I think the separation of "brown/black" vs. white is wrong. This is exactly what the powers that be want to see continue. As with most issues the politicans, CEOs (not all are rich Republicans, many are rich Democrats), and activists who head groups that receive gov't grants (environemental/community/etc.) all want this separation to continue so the free-for-all with our tax dollars when their appropriate party comes into power will continue. When we're bickering amongst ourselves and pointing fingers at each other for America's problems, we aren't looking at the folks who are really the cause of our problems.....our gov't and the groups that sustain themselves off it unfairly.

If we (as in the American people, all races) ever get our $hit together and realize we're being taken for a ride by these guys, then we can put a stop to it (if we don't, divided we fall). Don't forget the gov't spending spree that began under Bush 2 and has accelerated dramatically under Obama will hit the middle/lower classes hardest when the bills come due and our gov't spending is no longer sustainable (within the next few years). A VAT tax will proportionally hurt the middle/lower class (regardless of race) harder than the top 5%. Increased utility taxes embedded in our utility bills due to cap-n-trade and other environmental legislation will hit the middle/lower class harder. Increases in SS & Medicare percentages will hurt the middle/lower class and small business owners harder than CEOs, and politicians will exempt themselves. What is needed is fundamental tax reform (FairTax, flat tax, something of that nature) to take some of the control over exemptions and how tax deductions are distributed out of the politican's hands. It reduces their power on the collection side. They can still spend funds, but will be forced to scale back because if they have to implement a percentage increase on everyone, not just a select few, there will be greater backlash.

The "spread the wealth" comment I completely disagree with. Who gets to decide how the wealth is "spread around"? I'm not in the top 5% , but I'm doing OK to take care of my family. I work a full-time job and run a small business (65+ hour work weeks). Why should the money I earned from my hard work to take care of my family be taken (at an even more disproportionate rate than it is now), by the gov't and given to others, be they gov't employees, military contractors, recepients of social programs, or foreign gov'ts, or whatever?

Let's say your music takes off and you become successful at it (you may already be, I don't know) but not a millionaire. Is it fair that you should be taxed at a total rate of over 50% (not just Fed, all taxes) on your hard work and talent when others that haven't taken the initiative/risks you did pay nothng or almost nothing?

Just some stuff to think about. I get it, the target audience of the music isn't middle-aged white dudes, but I just wish we could all clear up misconceptions in our society and work together to tackle our country's problems.....yes, I'm the eternal optimist....sigh.

[2BIG2BSKINNY]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Not a bad track.

I disagree with a lot of the premises and statements though. I really wish everyone would read the law before commenting on it. I posted the text of the law in Post # 26. This law is about enforcing existing laws on the books and shutting down sanctuary cities, not racial profiling.

I think the separation of "brown/black" vs. white is wrong. This is exactly what the powers that be want to see continue. As with most issues the politicans, CEOs (not all are rich Republicans, many are rich Democrats), and activists who head groups that receive gov't grants (environemental/community/etc.) all want this separation to continue so the free-for-all with our tax dollars when their appropriate party comes into power will continue. When we're bickering amongst ourselves and pointing fingers at each other for America's problems, we aren't looking at the folks who are really the cause of our problems.....our gov't and the groups that sustain themselves off it unfairly.

If we (as in the American people, all races) ever get our $hit together and realize we're being taken for a ride by these guys, then we can put a stop to it (if we don't, divided we fall). Don't forget the gov't spending spree that began under Bush 2 and has accelerated dramatically under Obama will hit the middle/lower classes hardest when the bills come due and our gov't spending is no longer sustainable (within the next few years). A VAT tax will proportionally hurt the middle/lower class (regardless of race) harder than the top 5%. Increased utility taxes embedded in our utility bills due to cap-n-trade and other environmental legislation will hit the middle/lower class harder. Increases in SS & Medicare percentages will hurt the middle/lower class and small business owners harder than CEOs, and politicians will exempt themselves. What is needed is fundamental tax reform (FairTax, flat tax, something of that nature) to take some of the control over exemptions and how tax deductions are distributed out of the politican's hands. It reduces their power on the collection side. They can still spend funds, but will be forced to scale back because if they have to implement a percentage increase on everyone, not just a select few, there will be greater backlash.

The "spread the wealth" comment I completely disagree with. Who gets to decide how the wealth is "spread around"? I'm not in the top 5% , but I'm doing OK to take care of my family. I work a full-time job and run a small business (65+ hour work weeks). Why should the money I earned from my hard work to take care of my family be taken (at an even more disproportionate rate than it is now), by the gov't and given to others, be they gov't employees, military contractors, recepients of social programs, or foreign gov'ts, or whatever?

Let's say your music takes off and you become successful at it (you may already be, I don't know) but not a millionaire. Is it fair that you should be taxed at a total rate of over 50% (not just Fed, all taxes) on your hard work and talent when others that haven't taken the initiative/risks you did pay nothng or almost nothing?

Just some stuff to think about. I get it, the target audience of the music isn't middle-aged white dudes, but I just wish we could all clear up misconceptions in our society and work together to tackle our country's problems.....yes, I'm the eternal optimist....sigh.

Thank you for taking the time to listen to the track!

I understand that this is a issue that is not very easy to fix!
There are several issues that you may not agree with...

as minorities we need (hispanics) to draw from the experience and get unity from the African Americans... if for nothing else then it helps our numbers so that we get a voice.

It is not going to be a quick fix to this immigration problem as action on either side of this debate leads to more potential problems.

I just don't like the way it is being handled now!

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by 2BIG2BSKINNY

Thank you for taking the time to listen to the track!

I understand that this is a issue that is not very easy to fix!
There are several issues that you may not agree with...

as minorities we need (hispanics) to draw from the experience and get unity from the African Americans... if for nothing else then it helps our numbers so that we get a voice.

It is not going to be a quick fix to this immigration problem as action on either side of this debate leads to more potential problems.

I just don't like the way it is being handled now!

Agree with you on that for sure.

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Not a bad track.

I disagree with a lot of the premises and statements though. I really wish everyone would read the law before commenting on it. I posted the text of the law in Post # 26. This law is about enforcing existing laws on the books and shutting down sanctuary cities, not racial profiling.

I think the separation of "brown/black" vs. white is wrong. This is exactly what the powers that be want to see continue. As with most issues the politicans, CEOs (not all are rich Republicans, many are rich Democrats), and activists who head groups that receive gov't grants (environemental/community/etc.) all want this separation to continue so the free-for-all with our tax dollars when their appropriate party comes into power will continue. When we're bickering amongst ourselves and pointing fingers at each other for America's problems, we aren't looking at the folks who are really the cause of our problems.....our gov't and the groups that sustain themselves off it unfairly.

If we (as in the American people, all races) ever get our $hit together and realize we're being taken for a ride by these guys, then we can put a stop to it (if we don't, divided we fall). Don't forget the gov't spending spree that began under Bush 2 and has accelerated dramatically under Obama will hit the middle/lower classes hardest when the bills come due and our gov't spending is no longer sustainable (within the next few years). A VAT tax will proportionally hurt the middle/lower class (regardless of race) harder than the top 5%. Increased utility taxes embedded in our utility bills due to cap-n-trade and other environmental legislation will hit the middle/lower class harder. Increases in SS & Medicare percentages will hurt the middle/lower class and small business owners harder than CEOs, and politicians will exempt themselves. What is needed is fundamental tax reform (FairTax, flat tax, something of that nature) to take some of the control over exemptions and how tax deductions are distributed out of the politican's hands. It reduces their power on the collection side. They can still spend funds, but will be forced to scale back because if they have to implement a percentage increase on everyone, not just a select few, there will be greater backlash.

The "spread the wealth" comment I completely disagree with. Who gets to decide how the wealth is "spread around"? I'm not in the top 5% , but I'm doing OK to take care of my family. I work a full-time job and run a small business (65+ hour work weeks). Why should the money I earned from my hard work to take care of my family be taken (at an even more disproportionate rate than it is now), by the gov't and given to others, be they gov't employees, military contractors, recepients of social programs, or foreign gov'ts, or whatever?

Let's say your music takes off and you become successful at it (you may already be, I don't know) but not a millionaire. Is it fair that you should be taxed at a total rate of over 50% (not just Fed, all taxes) on your hard work and talent when others that haven't taken the initiative/risks you did pay nothng or almost nothing?

Just some stuff to think about. I get it, the target audience of the music isn't middle-aged white dudes, but I just wish we could all clear up misconceptions in our society and work together to tackle our country's problems.....yes, I'm the eternal optimist....sigh.

Actually Sammy spread the wealth is the chief function of all economic systems including capitalism. Don't let Rush bully you. If all wealth is concentrated in the hands of a few then we cease to be a democracy we wind up being a kingdom. Let's say one an individual accumulates a trillion dollars then something is truly wrong, he will essentially own everything. The system fails at that point. He will then have to euthanized.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan

Actually Sammy spread the wealth is the chief function of all economic systems including capitalism. Don't let Rush bully you. If all wealth is concentrated in the hands of a few then we cease to be a democracy we wind up being a kingdom. Let's say one an individual accumulates a trillion dollars then something is truly wrong, he will essentially own everything. The system fails at that point. He will then have to euthanized.

You are wrong....about...a....great...many....things.....y oung jedi.

1) "Spreading the wealth" or wealth redistribution is not a function of any economic system. The only entitiy that would redistribute wealth is one with the ability to do so (guns, jails, etc.)....the gov't. The function of federal gov't should be providing for national defense, certain nationwide infrastructure projects, courts, limited regulation of businesses, and not much more (that's why we have states). What is not a function of gov't is to take personal property from one group simply because of how much money they make and give it to others in the form of govt' payments in one form or another. There should be a uniform percentage of tax on all, with the very poor exempt. Those who make more money will pay more into that system because x % of $ 150K is more than x % of $ 50K.

Do you think it's fair that 47% of households in the U.S. pay no federal taxes? Is it fair that the top 10% paid about 73 percent of the income taxes collected by the federal government? Is it fair that the bottom 40%, on average, make a profit from federal income taxes?

2) I'm not a regular Rush listener and haven't listened in months.....I'm working in the middle of the day. But, you may want to stay off Air America.....ooops you can't listen to Air America, they went bankrupt and shut down.

3) So by your logic we should be getting the shots ready for saden's boys Billy G, Warren B, etc. because they've been too successful :frusty:

[Rainy Parade]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Is it fair that the top 10% paid about 73 percent of the income taxes collected by the federal government?

i think so.
but i'm a socialist.

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

You are wrong....about...a....great...many....things.....y oung jedi.

1) "Spreading the wealth" or wealth redistribution is not a function of any economic system. The only entitiy that would redistribute wealth is one with the ability to do so (guns, jails, etc.)....the gov't. The function of federal gov't should be providing for national defense, certain nationwide infrastructure projects, courts, limited regulation of businesses, and not much more (that's why we have states). What is not a function of gov't is to take personal property from one group simply because of how much money they make and give it to others in the form of govt' payments in one form or another. There should be a uniform percentage of tax on all, with the very poor exempt. Those who make more money will pay more into that system because x % of $ 150K is more than x % of $ 50K.

Do you think it's fair that 47% of households in the U.S. pay no federal taxes? Is it fair that the top 10% paid about 73 percent of the income taxes collected by the federal government? Is it fair that the bottom 40%, on average, make a profit from federal income taxes?

2) I'm not a regular Rush listener and haven't listened in months.....I'm working in the middle of the day. But, you may want to stay off Air America.....ooops you can't listen to Air America, they went bankrupt and shut down.

3) So by your logic we should be getting the shots ready for saden's boys Billy G, Warren B, etc. because they've been too successful :frusty:

I was being over dramatic. From your let the markets decide philosphy is ther a danger that a democracy turn into an oligarchy like in Russia. You must understand no system is perfect and must be regulated. Money is just a way to distribute welath itself. Not saying that's the governmnt's job, but in a good system design mooney does not collect in one spot. If it deos then it fails the society. You wind up with dictators. The free market will not regulate itself that would be a dangerous experiment and step back in time.

[2BIG2BSKINNY]

By the way I was born here in the United Sates from parents born in Cuba and Colombia! It does not affect me directly but it does my family!

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 2BIG2BSKINNY

By the way I was born here in the United Sates from parents born in Cuba and Colombia! It does not affect me directly but it does my family!

Are they not legal citizens and do they live in AR?

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by 2BIG2BSKINNY

By the way I was born here in the United Sates from parents born in Cuba and Colombia! It does not affect me directly but it does my family!

Totally understand. I'll apologize for my looking like a redneck idiot to you. lol. I honestly don't know what the answer is and I'm sure thats what the issue is with the feds. Better to put their heads in the sand and not see it then try to tackle it and piss off anyone.

I just don't see how its fair that we, you and I, being born here in America, have the same rights as the illegal who steps across the boarder two min. from now? I especially don't see how its fair that some individuals put their name on a list and actually wait the waiting period, which is like 10 yrs, and are allowed to come into the country legally have no different rights then the illegal who steps across the boarder illegally? What incentive is there to be a good immigrant and follow rules when the rules don't apply to everyone? I know many of legal immigrants who are pissed at the illegals.

On a side note do you care to share your oppinion or perhaps your parents oppinion?

[2BIG2BSKINNY]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Totally understand. I'll apologize for my looking like a redneck idiot to you. lol. I honestly don't know what the answer is and I'm sure thats what the issue is with the feds. Better to put their heads in the sand and not see it then try to tackle it and piss off anyone.

I just don't see how its fair that we, you and I, being born here in America, have the same rights as the illegal who steps across the boarder two min. from now? I especially don't see how its fair that some individuals put their name on a list and actually wait the waiting period, which is like 10 yrs, and are allowed to come into the country legally have no different rights then the illegal who steps across the boarder illegally? What incentive is there to be a good immigrant and follow rules when the rules don't apply to everyone? I know many of legal immigrants who are pissed at the illegals.

On a side note do you care to share your oppinion or perhaps your parents oppinion?

I think that is the point! I am an American citizen as my dad who was allowed in the country being Cuban, since our government does not like Castro! My mother has been here over 40 years and is a nautralized citizen and we are not from Arizona!........but..... since my folks and family and I for that matter speak Spanish and look Hispanic we will be bothered by this law and our rights taken away regardless of how many years here.

This is a discussion... I do not get offended easy...your good!

I do not look like a mexican but look very cuban as some cubans can be very light skin (as I ) and others dark skin who look african american.