McCardell takes on task of developing Devin Thomas, Malcolm Kelly

[REDSKINZ-RIDEORDIE]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

And this is based on what? And if he's done nothing, it's basically been in one year since his first year he really didn't play much his first year.

And also, to MKs defense, he hasnt be great, but thing I can say about that dude is that he has GREAT catching ability. For the most part, everything thrown to him he snags. Wide open or with defenders around him. I'm guessing he just needs to improve his route running. But like its been said, it's too early to cast these guys off.

This sounds corny, but I collect football cards, and from looking @ the stats for the WRs past and present, a big percentage of successful WRs did not break out until their 3rd-4th year, if not later.

For me, I'd be willing to give them another two years (this season included), before I'd be ready to cast them off. If they cant get it done in the next two years Shanny and McNabb, we need to cut bait, and look to signing a proven NFL stud WR (s).

[SmootSmack]

I realize that KM wasn't a 2nd round pick, but considering he did basically nothing his first 3 years in the league before he took off I would assume he, more than anyone, would understand 2 years is too soon to write Kelly or DT off

[GhettoDogAllStars]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I realize that KM wasn't a 2nd round pick, but considering he did basically nothing his first 3 years in the league before he took off I would assume he, more than anyone, would understand 2 years is too soon to write Kelly or DT off

Yeah, history shows that most WRs bloom in their 3rd year.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I realize that KM wasn't a 2nd round pick, but considering he did basically nothing his first 3 years in the league before he took off I would assume he, more than anyone, would understand 2 years is too soon to write Kelly or DT off

That is what a ton of folks said about JC or Ramsey also( too early to write them off). I think they are going to improve vastly this season, but Skinsfan is right to a degree. The guys have it or they don't. Zorn sucked as a HC, but he was a decent QB coach, and did nothing for JC, neither did Gibbs for that matter. Not because the coaches were necessarily bad, it was JC just couldn't break bad habits, etc. With the new offense given to them by Kyle, if those guys don't improve at all, with McNabb passing to them, then I think folks will be justified in starting to think our newbie WRs might by busts. The main excuses last season were the horrid system and the QB. Both problems have been dealt with and corrected. I am not expecting Desean Jackson and Maclin type stuff necessarily( although that would kick ass!), but a significant increase in the stats should be expected.

[Defensewins]

I have to agree with Skinsfan69, coaching can only take you so far. You still have to go out on the field and physically make plays. First Kelly and Thomas showed up to their first training camp out of shape and failed the fitness tests. Then they got injured and missed time.
I hope DT and MK become HOF'ers, I really do. I want them to be successful. But we have to move on if they do not show improvement and production this year.
Being tall and fast does not mean you are an NFL WR.
I don't care if Vince Lombardi came back to life and coached them, they still have to go out make plays.

[Longtimefan]

It will be interesting to witness what hindsight will reveal if/when the young receivers step to the forefront and have productive seasons. Will their success be attributed to McNabb being added, coaching, or just the players themselves making a concentrated effort to get better at what they do?.....Or will it be a combination of all the above, or something else?

[GusFrerotte]

Have to be a combo Longtime. The system sucked and the QB while improved, still wasn't all pro material like Donovan.

[The Goat]

I mean McNabb's leadership/reputation has to motivate these young guys to get a lot better a lot faster. That's one of the really great things about bringing in an established franchise QB...he makes everyone better in two ways. First because of the way he plays and second because of how he makes them wanna play.

...Thomas should be a friggin beast this year. He may be the most athletic guy on the team now that Tana is getting up there in years for a WR. If Thomas can consistently create space McNabb will get him the ball and we'll have a stud at WR.

[Longtimefan]

Originally Posted by The Goat

I mean McNabb's leadership/reputation has to motivate these young guys to get a lot better a lot faster. That's one of the really great things about bringing in an established franchise QB...he makes everyone better in two ways. First because of the way he plays and second because of how he makes them wanna play.

...Thomas should be a friggin beast this year. He may be the most athletic guy on the team now that Tana is getting up there in years for a WR. If Thomas can consistently create space McNabb will get him the ball and we'll have a stud at WR.

You're right about McNabb. Having a QB of his caliber gives the team a feeling of confidence they wouldn't have with a lesser quality guy. When the team takes the field now, they'll have that feeling they will win as opposed to hoping they can win. It's a quality this team has not known in a while.

[tryfuhl]

No doubt, I like that Shanahan basically said he's throwing the playbook at them, it's up to them to learn it and work it. Just knowing that he'll move them around to create advantages, run diff routes and looks, etc is promising. I'm just waiting on an excuse to get a Thomas jersey.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

No doubt, I like that Shanahan basically said he's throwing the playbook at them, it's up to them to learn it and work it. Just knowing that he'll move them around to create advantages, run diff routes and looks, etc is promising. I'm just waiting on an excuse to get a Thomas jersey.

Well, okay, if we hypothetically threw out all rookie years as for primarily developmental purposes, you're still left with two guys who had a disappointing Sophomore season. The thing is, Zorn could have taken Moss off the field at any time, placed him on punt returns, and let Kelly and Thomas play on the field together, and we would have had a much bigger sample size of production from the both of them.

Unfortunately, our coaching staff thought Moss gave us the best chance to win, so we played him even when he wasn't close to productive.

I have hope that Thomas OR Kelly can still develop, but it's really not looking good at this point. There's just not a whole lot of evidence-backed noise being generated from our young guys at that position, and while Shanahan^2 have been brought in to make those players productive, there just wasn't much of a leap for either one in 2009.

Kelly's awesome Week 17 game gives me SOME hope for him that maybe if the season hadn't ended, he would have been a productive receiver last year, but at this point, I'm just grasping for something tangible in their development to hold onto.

It is the metaphorical make-or-break year for both of our third year players, and if we could get just one starting caliber wide receiver out of either, I'd be satisfied with the 2008 draft so that it wouldn't look so depressing in retrospect.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Well, okay, if we hypothetically threw out all rookie years as for primarily developmental purposes, you're still left with two guys who had a disappointing Sophomore season. The thing is, Zorn could have taken Moss off the field at any time, placed him on punt returns, and let Kelly and Thomas play on the field together, and we would have had a much bigger sample size of production from the both of them.

Unfortunately, our coaching staff thought Moss gave us the best chance to win, so we played him even when he wasn't close to productive.

I have hope that Thomas OR Kelly can still develop, but it's really not looking good at this point. There's just not a whole lot of evidence-backed noise being generated from our young guys at that position, and while Shanahan^2 have been brought in to make those players productive, there just wasn't much of a leap for either one in 2009.

Kelly's awesome Week 17 game gives me SOME hope for him that maybe if the season hadn't ended, he would have been a productive receiver last year, but at this point, I'm just grasping for something tangible in their development to hold onto.

It is the metaphorical make-or-break year for both of our third year players, and if we could get just one starting caliber wide receiver out of either, I'd be satisfied with the 2008 draft so that it wouldn't look so depressing in retrospect.

Dude you seem to drastically undervalue Thomas' pure athletic ability. I think I remember from the beginning you took to Kelly over the Michigan state product, but honestly we've all watched Thomas do some pretty impressive shit on the field now (once he gets the pigskin in his hands). He fights for yardage like a hungry SOB.

I'd like to think McCardell's hands on approach and emphasis on hard work will make Thomas a significantly better route-runner. I think that's the key. If he learns to create separation consistently we'll have a monster at WR, no?

[wilsowilso]

Originally Posted by The Goat

I think that's the key. If he learns to create separation consistently we'll have a monster at WR, no?

I agree this is the key. Unfortunately Devin Thomas is god awful at creating seperation. It was his biggest weakness coming out of college and quite honestly it's a skill that is really really hard to teach unless the pupil wants to put in a tremendous amount of work into the technique.

The attention to detail needed if you are not a natural at creating seperation requires you to be very very diligent.

I don't thik DT has it in him. Not even close, but like I always say about the guy I hope he proves me wrong.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Dude you seem to drastically undervalue Thomas' pure athletic ability. I think I remember from the beginning you took to Kelly over the Michigan state product, but honestly we've all watched Thomas do some pretty impressive shit on the field now (once he gets the pigskin in his hands). He fights for yardage like a hungry SOB.

I'd like to think McCardell's hands on approach and emphasis on hard work will make Thomas a significantly better route-runner. I think that's the key. If he learns to create separation consistently we'll have a monster at WR, no?

I honestly have no idea what awesome/impressive things you are referring to. Thomas' entire career has been the TDs he scored in that Saints game. Overall, a great 60 minute performance, but not one play that I would say reminded me of something that Brandon Marshall or Roddy White could do.

I don't need/want flashy highlight reel type plays from my receivers, I just want them to be productive more than 1-3 games out of a season.

They still have time to get it turned around, but anyone who is expecting some sort of insane breakout this year from either Thomas or Kelly probably isn't basing it off either assessment of physical talent or prior production.

Honestly, the best thing at this point is that Kelly/Thomas stop getting mentioned together as a duo, and one clearly separates himself from the other this season. If that can happen this year, maybe we can get a 2011 breakout season (there of course will probably be some signs at the end of this year, not unlike Miles Austin or DeSean Jackson at the end of 2008 -- this after one guy separates himself from the other).

If neither guy can get 35+ catches or 400+ yards this year, it's probably time to cut bait with both of them at the end of the year.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Well, okay, if we hypothetically threw out all rookie years as for primarily developmental purposes, you're still left with two guys who had a disappointing Sophomore season. The thing is, Zorn could have taken Moss off the field at any time, placed him on punt returns, and let Kelly and Thomas play on the field together, and we would have had a much bigger sample size of production from the both of them.

Unfortunately, our coaching staff thought Moss gave us the best chance to win, so we played him even when he wasn't close to productive.

I have hope that Thomas OR Kelly can still develop, but it's really not looking good at this point. There's just not a whole lot of evidence-backed noise being generated from our young guys at that position, and while Shanahan^2 have been brought in to make those players productive, there just wasn't much of a leap for either one in 2009.

Kelly's awesome Week 17 game gives me SOME hope for him that maybe if the season hadn't ended, he would have been a productive receiver last year, but at this point, I'm just grasping for something tangible in their development to hold onto.

It is the metaphorical make-or-break year for both of our third year players, and if we could get just one starting caliber wide receiver out of either, I'd be satisfied with the 2008 draft so that it wouldn't look so depressing in retrospect.

You're right that the sample size is pretty small. However seeing what they did with the ball in their hands, especially Thomas, gives promise. It's on them to work on precise routes, creating separation, etc which hopefully will come through this year.