Huddle Report Mock Draft

[lifetimeskin]

From the salary charts, I see that Ramsey won't be a UFA until 2007, which gives us three years with a relatively small cap hit (about $1M per year). I don't think we will be able to get another QB of his quality for that type of compensation. Assuming that Brunnel starts this year and next, we get Ramsey for 2006, and then depending on his performance a new contract would have to be negotiated for 2007. Accordingly, I am now of the opinion, that it certainly doesn't make sense to trade Ramsey.

[Carnage]

Ramsey is so cheap. THis has got to be bs.

[Ade Jimoh Fan Club]

Trade our O-Line anchor and future Pro-Bowl Safety (Taylor) for a QB? Makes perfect sense! We should also try to trade Arrington and Smoot for some more draft picks so we can stockpile some WR's!

It is obvious that a woman is starting these rumors - because they don't make any logical sense!!

[skins93]

I said earlier that this mock draft may not be realistic, but for all those who continue to insist that Ramsey is a franchise QB, I ask why?

The things mentioned are:
-that he is a leader---what are you judging this by, have you talked to players personally?
-someone said he has good mobility---why? because he had ONE DECENT RUN in the 1st game, he has no movement in the pocket at all
-he's accurate---I know he had little protection, but in a Spurrier offense that emphasizes short, quick passes, he only had a 53% completion rate
-that he doesn't cost a lot---should this be a reason to keep someone on the roster?

Ramsey may be on the Skins for a long time coming, but I just don't think he is a QB that is going to take us to the promise land, IMO...

By the way, I think completion percentage says a lot of a QB, more than pure arm strength (ala Joe Montana, Steve Young). Here's a look at some QB's in the league and their completion percentage in their first couple of years:

Drew Brees - 61% and 58%
Q. Carter - 57% and 58%
J. Harrington - 50% and 56%
J. McCown - 57%
B. Leftwich - 57%

[offiss]

Originally Posted by skins93

I said earlier that this mock draft may not be realistic, but for all those who continue to insist that Ramsey is a franchise QB, I ask why?

The things mentioned are:
-that he is a leader---what are you judging this by, have you talked to players personally?
-someone said he has good mobility---why? because he had ONE DECENT RUN in the 1st game, he has no movement in the pocket at all
-he's accurate---I know he had little protection, but in a Spurrier offense that emphasizes short, quick passes, he only had a 53% completion rate
-that he doesn't cost a lot---should this be a reason to keep someone on the roster?

Ramsey may be on the Skins for a long time coming, but I just don't think he is a QB that is going to take us to the promise land, IMO...

By the way, I think completion percentage says a lot of a QB, more than pure arm strength (ala Joe Montana, Steve Young). Here's a look at some QB's in the league and their completion percentage in their first couple of years:

Drew Brees - 61% and 58%
Q. Carter - 57% and 58%
J. Harrington - 50% and 56%
J. McCown - 57%
B. Leftwich - 57%

In order to evaluate talent you can't look at number's, as you pointed out with the qb's you listed, harrington and leftwhich are the only guy's who may be something down the road, as for joe m. and steve y. they both played in the dink and dunk west coast offense, high percentage short passes, so you unfairly compare them to QB's who run a more conventional offense and hold the ball longer and throw down the field, by the way how smart was young when he was playing in tampa bay? the guy was horrible much worse than ramsey ever could be, and how long did it take him to really be effeciant at san fran? A while. ramsey was able to do what he did in spite of an absoultly attroches blocking scheme, and still had success, and all the while he had a bad foot, Ramsey isn't going to be a very good QB, he is going to be a great QB, an elite type QB when it's all said and done. As for having no mobility in the pocket? he may have more pocket awareness than any QB in the game, he manuever's in the pocket maybe better than any QB I have seen, what he doesn't have is straight ahead speed, but he's not slow either, I watched him pull away from jet LB sam cowart last season so he has the speed to out run an OLB, he just doesn't have after burner's that's all. I would also like to see a tougher QB in the league, after what I saw ramsey absorb last year I know 1 thing, this kid is a rock, and with all that punishment not once did I see him with happy feet or throw off his back foot he stood in there because his desire to win was greater than his desire not to be hurt, as for smart's? I would like to know who is more intellegent than Ramsey at the QB position?

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by offiss

In order to evaluate talent you can't look at number's, as you pointed out with the qb's you listed, harrington and leftwhich are the only guy's who may be something down the road, as for joe m. and steve y. they both played in the dink and dunk west coast offense, high percentage short passes, so you unfairly compare them to QB's who run a more conventional offense and hold the ball longer and throw down the field, by the way how smart was young when he was playing in tampa bay? the guy was horrible much worse than ramsey ever could be, and how long did it take him to really be effeciant at san fran? A while. ramsey was able to do what he did in spite of an absoultly attroches blocking scheme, and still had success, and all the while he had a bad foot, Ramsey isn't going to be a very good QB, he is going to be a great QB, an elite type QB when it's all said and done. As for having no mobility in the pocket? he may have more pocket awareness than any QB in the game, he manuever's in the pocket maybe better than any QB I have seen, what he doesn't have is straight ahead speed, but he's not slow either, I watched him pull away from jet LB sam cowart last season so he has the speed to out run an OLB, he just doesn't have after burner's that's all. I would also like to see a tougher QB in the league, after what I saw ramsey absorb last year I know 1 thing, this kid is a rock, and with all that punishment not once did I see him with happy feet or throw off his back foot he stood in there because his desire to win was greater than his desire not to be hurt, as for smart's? I would like to know who is more intellegent than Ramsey at the QB position?

So what does it feel like to be in love, Offiss?

[offiss]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

So what does it feel like to be in love, Offiss?

BB your a funny guy. lol but keep it down my girlfriend's nephew start's for the cowboy's, and you never know when the enemy is monitoring the site. lol

[SKINSnCANES]

Originally Posted by offiss

In order to evaluate talent you can't look at number's, as you pointed out with the qb's you listed, harrington and leftwhich are the only guy's who may be something down the road, as for joe m. and steve y. they both played in the dink and dunk west coast offense, high percentage short passes, so you unfairly compare them to QB's who run a more conventional offense and hold the ball longer and throw down the field

Spurrier ran a dink and dunk offense. He wanted to throw it down the field but had never heard of a blocking scheme so he ran screen plays all the time. Ramsey threw it down field a lot in the begining but then never got the chance to anymore.

What Ramsey needs is confidence in his team, he lost that at the end of the year. He needs to step in there and have a team block for him. Under Bugel that will happen. I think Ramsey should get the start until he proves otherwise. This preseason is going to be an interesting one. It would be a shame to waste Ramsey for two years, his going into his prime years. If Gibbs thinks hes going to play Brunell just becuase hes a vet then id trade Ramsey, otherwise keep him and let him play and have the vet at backup.

[skinsfanthru&thru]

I agree SkinsnCanes except there's the little matter of the $40+ million contract and $7 million signing bonus that was given to Brunnel. If Brunnel isn't the starter this year and part of next, I know I for one will be extremely pissed off at the FO (and forgive me for saying this but also a little at Mr. Gibbs since Brunnel was his call) for giving up a 3rd round selection in a deep draft and giving a big ass contract for a player who's not even a starter. And while I still hope the starting job really is a competition, it could only make Ramsey a better qb if he sat and learned for atleast most of this upcoming year. And people talk about Brunnel like he's a bum or something, but I think talent wise with his expireince, leadership, and field vision, he's a better qb than Ramsey right now. Brunnel knows not to hang onto the ball forever and still has a little giddy-up in his step to get out of the pocket. I have a feeling Mr. Gibbs knows a little more about the talent of his players than we do so I'm gonna trust him whether he wants to keep Ramsey or trade ramsey and bring in a qb that could be his project.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by skins93

I said earlier that this mock draft may not be realistic, but for all those who continue to insist that Ramsey is a franchise QB, I ask why?

The things mentioned are:
-that he is a leader---what are you judging this by, have you talked to players personally?
-someone said he has good mobility---why? because he had ONE DECENT RUN in the 1st game, he has no movement in the pocket at all
-he's accurate---I know he had little protection, but in a Spurrier offense that emphasizes short, quick passes, he only had a 53% completion rate
-that he doesn't cost a lot---should this be a reason to keep someone on the roster?

Ramsey may be on the Skins for a long time coming, but I just don't think he is a QB that is going to take us to the promise land, IMO...

To address your points:

First, every report I have read from analysts, insiders and reporters who DO talk to the players is that Ramsey is LOVED in the locker room. Jansen (admittedly his best friend) has constantly stated that everyone respects him for taking the punishment, not pointing fingers and never giving up. If you can show me one statement from a player that contradicts this - please show me because I have never seen anything to that effect.

Second, this one I'll give ya, he is not the most mobile quarterback. Also, when he moves (rollouts and planned movement), he seems to lose his mechanics. I think his pocket awareness is good not great and he can shift around in it. But no, Vick he is not. But so what? Dan Marino - Not mobile, Jim Kelly - Not mobile, Tom Brady- no more mobile than Ramsey, same with Farve and Manning. Sorry, mobility not key to being a great quarterback.

Third, "a Spurrier offense that emphasizes short, quick passes"?? What Spurrier offense are you talking about? Certainly not the "Fun n' Gun" which emphasizes flooding the entire field with receivers looking deep first then working back to the short pass. Spurrier emphasized low percentage passing figuring that, heck, if I hit 50% of my long balls, that's more TD's than the other side can score.

Fourth, "that he doesn't cost a lot---should this be a reason to keep someone on the roster?" When the person is a qb with starting experience, has the potential for a huge upside, and in this day of cap constraints, ABSOLUTELY. To fail to consider cap costs when deciding whether to keep, cut or trade a quality (and I emphasize "quality") player would be evidence of severe front office mismanagement.

Ramsey critics MAY be right - maybe he will not develop into a quality starter. From everything I have seen and read, such opinions are contrary to talent evaluators throughout the league. The guy's only had two years and, yes, he has demonstrated some flaws (holds the ball to long, takes sack instead of getting rid of it, doesn't seem to see the field at times). But let's see what he can do under a coach who doesn't require the QB to win the game out of the gate and who knows how to win with a variety of QB's.

IMHO - Trading a quality player and quality person like Ramsey at this time and for this franchise would be a huge mistake.

[BleedBurgundy]

Well said, Joe.

[skinsfanthru&thru]

Offiss, while I agree with most of your points about Ramsey, I have to strongly disagree about Ramsey being anywhere close to the most aware QB in the league. How many times did he get blindsided last year, all the while he's looking down field and patting the ball seemingly unaware of how long he's holding the ball and wind up being stripped of the ball? And he is no where near being at the top of the league in pocket mobility. I think both of those honors go to Vick. As far as the smartest qb in the league, its either Manning, McNair, or Pettington. I think under Gibbs and Brunnel's teachings that Ramsey can join these qbs as one of the smartest qbs in the league. I do agree that Ramsey is one tough sob and I would put him in the same league with Favre and Mcnair for being one of the 3 toughest qbs in the league. Too bad he had to prove it the way he did last year though. :smashfrea

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by skinsfanthru&thru

I do agree that Ramsey is one tough sob and I would put him in the same league with Favre and Mcnair for being one of the 3 toughest qbs in the league. Too bad he had to prove it the way he did last year though.

Right on SFT&T, for all his faults, Ramsey is one of the toughest QB's I have seen. He played on a broken foot for how long?? This factor alone ranks him high in my books and, I think, makes a huge difference to his teammates. Anyone remember how the team just quit on Jeff What's-His-Name, you know the "omigod I may be hit and it's all your fault" QB? This team will NEVER quit on Ramsey.

I don't think anyone, even his critics, can deny that Ramsey has the raw talent to be a good QB - maybe even more, but at the very least a good, quality, "I can win with you" QB. If anyone can take him to the next step and help his skills match his toughness, it's Gibbs.

[skinsfanthru&thru]

I'm starting to agree with you JoeRedskin, but I think a lot of people will forget Ramsey when Losman (took Ramsey's place at Tulane) becomes a starter. From what I've read and seen, he has similar if not better arm strength than Ramsey, a very fiery field general, and much more mobile.

http://www.nflfuture.com/jplosman.html

I would love to keep Ramsey, but if we get a good enough deal with a good enough qb available, I think we need to make the trade. I say this because like I wrote before, unfortunately I believe there's a very, very distinct chance Ramsey won't resign when his contract expires. We'll have trained and honed him to be a possibly elite qb and then he's gonna bolt the first chance he gets for having the starting job "stolen" from him. Let's not forget he's losing a lot of money sitting on the bench since most of his contract is pretty much built upon perfomance incentives. Why not get something for him while we can and train a new qb who has a clean slate with the team?

[offiss]

Originally Posted by skinsfanthru&thru

Offiss, while I agree with most of your points about Ramsey, I have to strongly disagree about Ramsey being anywhere close to the most aware QB in the league. How many times did he get blindsided last year, all the while he's looking down field and patting the ball seemingly unaware of how long he's holding the ball and wind up being stripped of the ball? And he is no where near being at the top of the league in pocket mobility. I think both of those honors go to Vick. As far as the smartest qb in the league, its either Manning, McNair, or Pettington. I think under Gibbs and Brunnel's teachings that Ramsey can join these qbs as one of the smartest qbs in the league. I do agree that Ramsey is one tough sob and I would put him in the same league with Favre and Mcnair for being one of the 3 toughest qbs in the league. Too bad he had to prove it the way he did last year though. :smashfrea

The one thing that you have to take into account is Ramsey almost never had a chance to plant and look down field the defender's were in the back field almost as fast as he was, the fact is only a guy like vick, or MCnabb would be able to get away from some of those pass rushes, he had a choice start running and lose, or give himself a little extra time staying pat and taking the hit in order to let a player break free down field, I know I am very pro Ramsey, but I have to be true to my ability to read talent, and I say this kid is absolutly perfect for Gibb's, I also know that saying any player who hasen't gone out and put up big number's is going to be great will bring back sceptic's, and critisism, but that's what I see in this kid, and I am not backing off that statement, it's what I believe, and I will critisize a player in a heartbeat, I don't care who he is, If he ain't gettin the job done.