Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8

[MTK]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

But your definition of marriage as two people is necessarily as limiting as defining what gender those two people are. The comparison between gay marriage, straight marriage, polygamy and so forth is legit. The problem as I see it isn't whether the gov't should legally recognize gay marriage but why the gov't recognizes marriage at all. It is social contract that really shouldn't be ordained by the gov't because then it forces the gov't to then decree what is "right" and what is "wrong". The gov't ought to get out of the marriage business. That fixes the whole argument. We have bigger issues to deal with really. Issues that actually affect all of us.

I've got no issues with that. I didn't mean to limit anything by saying two people. But how does beastiality or incest enter the conversation?

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

But how does beastiality or incest enter the conversation?

It doesn't. I hadn't really paid any heed to that stuff. I am just talking about marriage and it's ability to be ever-so-impossible to define in a way that everyone would be happy with. I guess to me the issue is "marriage of non-related people". I might be persuaded to actually take the non-related out of that though. I imagine some reasonable person somewhere wants to marry his cousin and cohabitate in a non-gross way. Anyways this is my point... I don't want to be the person deciding whether they can so I certainly don't want some faceless governmental device doing it.

What a truly worthless conversation this discussion strikes me as the more we engage in it.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

It doesn't. I hadn't really paid any heed to that stuff. I am just talking about marriage and it's ability to be ever-so-impossible to define in a way that everyone would be happy with. I guess to me the issue is "marriage of non-related people". I might be persuaded to actually take the non-related out of that though. I imagine some reasonable person somewhere wants to marry his cousin and cohabitate in a non-gross way. Anyways this is my point... I don't want to be the person deciding whether they can so I certainly don't want some faceless governmental device doing it.

What a truly worthless conversation this discussion strikes me as the more we engage in it.

With all due respect, it might worthless to some here on a football forum, but it's definitely a worthy discussion and a lifelong battle for millions of gays and lesbians that want to enter marriage and be awarded the same basic rights as heterosexual couples; to live their lives free of discrimination, hate, and be treated equally.

I'm not on some liberal high horse, but the conversation is in keeping with the thread.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

With all due respect, it might worthless to some here on a football forum, but it's definitely a worthy discussion and a lifelong battle for millions of gays and lesbians that want to enter marriage and be awarded the same basic rights as heterosexual couples; to live their lives free of discrimination, hate, and be treated equally.

I'm not on some liberal high horse, but the conversation is in keeping with the thread.

I probably didn't express myself very well there. I agree with you in the sense that if the gov't is going to sanction marriage then this is a very important discussion. I just don't think the gov't should so therefore I think the conversation is pointless. Just from my perspective though. I do realize that the government giving up on marriage sanctification is a pipe-dream though. It is too entrenched in our scoiety as a legal element to ever go away.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I probably didn't express myself very well there. I agree with you in the sense that if the gov't is going to sanction marriage then this is a very important discussion. I just don't think the gov't should so therefore I think the conversation is pointless. Just from my perspective though. I do realize that the government giving up on marriage sanctification is a pipe-dream though. It is too entrenched in our scoiety as a legal element to ever go away.

Funny because right after I posted this, I read your follow-up post.

Anyway, points well stated and noted.