Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

A sick society is just like a sick animal. It doesn't matter if it is a big strong animal like an elephant. The stronger, more aggressive, beasts smell weakness and feed off the dying. I just wish it wasn't my country that was being eaten.

It isn't us that is sick. Change and progress is good. Hope and fear not so much.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by saden1

It isn't us that is sick. Change and progress is good. Hope and fear not so much.

I don't agree with TTE at all on this deal but this statement is what kills me about the liberal mindset on this. You don't get that a fair majority of the population doesn't see this change as progress at all. They see it as rotting. Essentially the opposite of progress. That's a major disconnect in the discussion.

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I don't agree with TTE at all on this deal but this statement is what kills me about the liberal mindset on this. You don't get that a fair majority of the population doesn't see this change as progress at all. They see it as rotting. Essentially the opposite of progress. That's a major disconnect in the discussion.

It is but a symptom of the rot. Natural law has been supplanted with corruption.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I don't agree with TTE at all on this deal but this statement is what kills me about the liberal mindset on this. You don't get that a fair majority of the population doesn't see this change as progress at all. They see it as rotting. Essentially the opposite of progress. That's a major disconnect in the discussion.

Whether the population as a whole sees it as progress is immaterial to whether it's progress. I get that people are upset but I don't believe it's a majority anymore. Homosexuality use to be punishable by death, now it is not. It use to be something to be feared/rejected and now it isn't as feared/rejected. This is progress whether you and others see it as such or not.

Advocates for gay rights need to change people's attitude towards gays and the court system is one of many tools to exert social influence. We aren't there yet but we will be in a decade or so and people's attitudes will change...they have to in order to cope with the stress of living in a society where gays are in your face.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by saden1

Whether the population as a whole sees it as progress is immaterial to whether it's progress. I get that people are upset but I don't believe it's a majority anymore. Homosexuality use to be punishable by death, now it is not. It use to be something to be feared/rejected and now it isn't as feared/rejected. This is progress whether you and others see it as such or not.

Advocates for gay rights need to change people's attitude towards gays and the court system is one of many tools to exert social influence. We aren't there yet but we will be in a decade or so and people's attitudes will change...they have to in order to cope with the stress of living in a society where gays are in your face.

In this instance, this is soley your opinion and no more definitive of "progress" than any other....opinion. And, I imagine not shared by many others with........opinions.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Hog1

In this instance, this is soley your opinion and no more definitive of "progress" than any other....opinion. And, I imagine not shared by many others with........opinions.

This is a terrible post...you should reevaluate it.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by saden1

This is a terrible post...you should reevaluate it.

I could restate it to...help you understand??

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Hog1

I could restate it to...help you understand??

The problem isn't my understanding but the quality of it. I am confidant you can break your own post down...give it a try before I do.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by saden1

and the court system is one of many tools to exert social influence.

And I always thought the courts were there to decide legal disputes based on merits of cases, not to legislate "social influence" one way or the other. Silly me.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

And I always thought the courts were there to decide legal disputes based on merits of cases, not to legislate "social influence" one way or the other. Silly me.

The court exist to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority and whether we agree with their decisions or not they do in fact exert social influence.

[GhettoDogAllStars]

Originally Posted by saden1

Advocates for gay rights need to change people's attitude towards gays and the court system is one of many tools to exert social influence. We aren't there yet but we will be in a decade or so and people's attitudes will change...they have to in order to cope with the stress of living in a society where gays are in your face.

I'm not necessarily a fan of court rulings influencing society, but I believe you are right. I can only wonder what the majority of Americans would have said about Brown vs Board of Education. Seems like that could be an example of the courts exerting good social influence, regardless of popular opinion. I didn't live in the 50's so maybe I'm wrong and everyone was on-board, but I doubt it.

Edit: Yeah, what DRave said.